Narnia

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Salamander:
Oh, OK, JohnV, everytime some one makes a valid arguement, you automatically shift into "attack KJVO mode".

Again, I was not accusing anyone of anything. I was commenting that the parallels are notably similar. But, in actuality, the issue of translationism was brought up by an anti-narnia person prior to my comment.

Anytime a parallel to Truth occurs, it is not exactly the Truth, thus it becomes allegory, which is NOT Truth. So tell me what is wrong with one adhering to the Truth??

Adhering to the truth is a good and right thing to do. The topic of KJVOism has nothing to do with the Truth, so I'm a bit of a loss as to why you make that comment in regards to parallelling the denouncements of the narnia stories with KJVOism.

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Phillip:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Salamander:
Phillip, in the same respect that Elvis singing Amazing Grace has the same implications of Saddam Hussein singing God Bless America.

Abstain from ALL appearances of evil is what God said, so why do so many "Christians" say different?

Maybe that "Christians" have become "smarter" than God?

That is quite an accusation. Maybe you are creating your own appearance of evil. I saw a fantasy movie, nothing more. The people in the theater saw a fantasy movie too.

I will say one thing...this is totally different than The Passion of Christ because it is WRITTEN as a fantasy. If there are metaphors relating back to the Bible, so be it. I saw it as a great work of artistic and clean entertainment.

So, by not seeing evil in it, you are assuming that I think I am smarter than God? </font>[/QUOTE]"Maybe" and "implications" are NOT "accusations".

If you saw a fantasy with Biblical implications according to Biblical characters, then why do you need a fantasy? Something wrong wioth the Bible for "entertainment"?

Seems the flesh desires more than the Bible.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
h m m m m

Again, it is a movie whose storyline contains scriptural parallels. In and of itself, there's nothing unscriptural about containing scriptural parallels.

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Salamander:
Oh, OK, JohnV, everytime some one makes a valid arguement, you automatically shift into "attack KJVO mode".

Again, I was not accusing anyone of anything. I was commenting that the parallels are notably similar. But, in actuality, the issue of translationism was brought up by an anti-narnia person prior to my comment.

Anytime a parallel to Truth occurs, it is not exactly the Truth, thus it becomes allegory, which is NOT Truth. So tell me what is wrong with one adhering to the Truth??

Adhering to the truth is a good and right thing to do. The topic of KJVOism has nothing to do with the Truth, so I'm a bit of a loss as to why you make that comment in regards to parallelling the denouncements of the narnia stories with KJVOism. </font>[/QUOTE]You made the paralellaism that brought up a KJVO comment by some one else. You did exactly as it was said by making that analogy in comparison.

The facts remain, anything that resemble God's Word is only a facsimile. Narnia is an avenue to the Truth by way of what God condemns, but your type says, "But it is only make-believe". Then you endanger established Truth by instilling make-believe as an instrument to convey the "message" of Truth/ we still have the Bible. Why do we need a "fantasy" to tell us what the Bible already says?

 

[Salamander]

BTW, "translationism"?? i.e, New word introduced by JohnV to the American English Version.

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
h m m m m

Again, it is a movie whose storyline contains scriptural parallels. In and of itself, there's nothing unscriptural about containing scriptural parallels. </font>[/QUOTE]Did you observe "departing from the truth" into consideration before making that statement? Not.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Salamander:
Did you observe "departing from the truth" into consideration before making that statement?

Your comment about "departing from the truth" doesn't apply, because we're not talking about something that claims to be scriptural truth. No one here upholds it as scriptural truth (except perhaps, some anti-narnia folks).

Again, it is not unscriptural for a film to simply contain scriptural parallels.

 

[nate]

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
The Biblical accounts are stated simply, not graphically portrayed on the silver screen in an edifying and glorifying way. As a former SS teacher, the depth and content of Biblical stories is defined by age and maturity. For some crazy reason, I am a firm believer in accepting God's perspective, not hellywood's, nor through the eyes of mythology. God did not use magic/witchcraft to tell His Story. He told us that magic/witchcraft is wrong and gave examples why that is so.

Please read the Gospels Christ death and His road to cross is quite graphic.

 

[nate]

Originally posted by nate:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
The Biblical accounts are stated simply, not graphically portrayed on the silver screen in an edifying and glorifying way. As a former SS teacher, the depth and content of Biblical stories is defined by age and maturity. For some crazy reason, I am a firm believer in accepting God's perspective, not hellywood's, nor through the eyes of mythology. God did not use magic/witchcraft to tell His Story. He told us that magic/witchcraft is wrong and gave examples why that is so.

Please read the Gospels Christ death and road to the cross is quite graphic. </font>[/QUOTE]

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Posted by nate:
Please read the Gospels Christ death and road to the cross is quite graphic. [/qb]

[/QB][/QUOTE]

Actually, the gospels tell us very little about His suffering and death, which is why the passion movie made such a big hit. mel had to add violent and graphic outrage, mocking and deriding the story and embellished it with the visions of mystic nuns, so that christians could "feel" His suffering. So much for a solid foundation in the Word . . . discernment is at an all time low.

 

[Johnv]

The topic of the "Passion" movie aside, a person in the 1st century living in Judea would have been well aware of the grotesque and gruesome nature of crucifixion. They would have witnessed crucified bodies hanging like proverbial christmas ornaments on the side of the road at the entrance to major cities like Jerusalem.

We folks in the 21st centurey have no real condept of what crucifixion entails. Our image is quite antiseptic and inaccurate compared to the real thing. So much so that the term "Jesus shed his blood for you" is so benign that it's become a cliche. I personally think that we need to be reminded of the seriousness of Christ's suffering and death to better comprehend to what length Jesus went through in sacrificing himself for us.

But all that is neither here nor there to the topic at hand. The fact remains that a film or story that contains scriptural parallels does not in and of itself violate scripture.

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Originally posted by Johnv:
The topic of the "Passion" movie aside, a person in the 1st century living in Judea would have been well aware of the grotesque and gruesome nature of crucifixion. They would have witnessed crucified bodies hanging like proverbial christmas ornaments on the side of the road at the entrance to major cities like Jerusalem.

We folks in the 21st centurey have no real condept of what crucifixion entails. Our image is quite antiseptic and inaccurate compared to the real thing. So much so that the term "Jesus shed his blood for you" is so benign that it's become a cliche. I personally think that we need to be reminded of the seriousness of Christ's suffering and death to better comprehend to what length Jesus went through in sacrificing himself for us.

But all that is neither here nor there to the topic at hand. The fact remains that a film or story that contains scriptural parallels does not in and of itself violate scripture.

The Bible tells all we need to know. It is not necessary to drown in the details. It is enough to know that I was bent for hell and because of Jesus, I have life. The Holy Spirit convicts and moves one's heart to understand His sacrifice, because we have God's written Word. It is Complete. It is Perfect. It is Eternal. It fully transcends anything and everything that man can come up with.

Scriptural parallels are man's attempt to improve upon God. It's that simple. Maturity in the Word, wisdom and knowledge, understanding all come to those who seek God with all their heart and He will give it. James 1

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
The Bible tells all we need to know. It is not necessary to drown in the details.

As far as doctrine, you're absolutely correct. But for personal study and enrichment, it's perfectly permissible to desire and seek the context of the scriptural content, such as the point of the writer, the point of the audience, and the cultural mindset of the day.

It is enough to know that I was bent for hell and because of Jesus, I have life. The Holy Spirit convicts and moves one's heart to understand His sacrifice, because we have God's written Word. It is Complete. It is Perfect. It is Eternal. It fully transcends anything and everything that man can come up with.

And no one here says otherwise.

Scriptural parallels are man's attempt to improve upon God. It's that simple.

That's a ridiculous and manmade assumption. It's not scriptural. It presumes that you know the hearts of the people who write stories that contain sriptural parallels.

I would' however, concur that holding up a story that contains scriptural parallels or similarities to the same level of scripture is a scriptural violation and compromise. However, since no one is doing that here, it's a nonissue to this topic.

Maturity in the Word, wisdom and knowledge, understanding all come to those who seek God with all their heart and He will give it. James 1

Again, no one in this thread says otherwise.

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
The Bible tells all we need to know. It is not necessary to drown in the details.

As far as doctrine, you're absolutely correct. But for personal study and enrichment, it's perfectly permissible to desire and seek the context of the scriptural content, such as the point of the writer, the point of the audience, and the cultural mindset of the day.

It is enough to know that I was bent for hell and because of Jesus, I have life. The Holy Spirit convicts and moves one's heart to understand His sacrifice, because we have God's written Word. It is Complete. It is Perfect. It is Eternal. It fully transcends anything and everything that man can come up with.

And no one here says otherwise.

Scriptural parallels are man's attempt to improve upon God. It's that simple.

That's a ridiculous and manmade assumption. It's not scriptural. It presumes that you know the hearts of the people who write stories that contain sriptural parallels.

I would' however, concur that holding up a story that contains scriptural parallels or similarities to the same level of scripture is a scriptural violation and compromise. However, since no one is doing that here, it's a nonissue to this topic.

Maturity in the Word, wisdom and knowledge, understanding all come to those who seek God with all their heart and He will give it. James 1

Again, no one in this thread says otherwise. </font>[/QUOTE]Back to the topic

The thread is dealing with parallelism that comes from unclean sources. By their own admission [writers, actors, family members], the movie/books is not about christianity, nor are they about a Scriptural parallel. It is the Christian community that seeks to apply it Biblically, when it does not exist. This is held on a long tradition that CS Lewis was supposedly a Christian. He never wrote the book as a parallel to the Bible. He never intended it to be so. That makes me wonder why so many are trying so hard to make TCoN, christian books and movie .

Does that give the christian community the right to apply something mythological and magical to anything having to do with the Bible? Is God glorified when witchcraft, mythology, and magic are used as a parallel to His Word, when He said they were an abomination to Him?

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
.........

The Bible tells all we need to know. It is not necessary to drown in the details......

Scriptural parallels are man's attempt to improve upon God. It's that simple. Maturity in the Word, wisdom and knowledge, understanding all come to those who seek God with all their heart and He will give it. James 1 [/QUOTE]

Eloi and Salamander,
(I wish I knew how to quote from more than one post.) Some of your comments are directed to "magical" literature. Others like the above seem to be far more general than just against literature like Narnia.
In other words, are you then against Pilgrim's Progress? (There is another ongoing thread on its value.) By many of your statements at face value, reading Pilgrim's Progress is a waste of time.

Karen

 

[kiwimac]

eloidalmanutha

You say C.S. Lewis was "Supposedly" a Christian. When did God give you the ability to judge another's salvation?

As for the use of allegory in telling the truths of the scriptures, it is a human thing and I assume God is happy with it, certainly there are no commandments telling us not to use allegory and parallelism.

Kiwimac

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Phillip:
Marcia, just how many people do you know who are worshipping unicorns? Give me a break. Now, I guess Casper the friendly ghost is evil.

Why don't we just take ALL fantasy books and films and have a public BURNING. Yeah, that's the ticket!!!!

Unicorns? I didn't say anything about unicorns. However, there are people who worship the pagan gods. Pan is depicted as a forest god who looks like a faun. But if you read what I said, I did not say this was wrong just that it reminded me of those I've known and know now who worship these gods.

Also, I NEVER suggested any book burning -- your 2nd statement above is a very unfair ad hominem. It would be nice if you apologized.

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Originally posted by Karen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
.........

The Bible tells all we need to know. It is not necessary to drown in the details......

Scriptural parallels are man's attempt to improve upon God. It's that simple. Maturity in the Word, wisdom and knowledge, understanding all come to those who seek God with all their heart and He will give it. James 1 </font>[/QUOTE]Eloi and Salamander,
(I wish I knew how to quote from more than one post.) Some of your comments are directed to "magical" literature. Others like the above seem to be far more general than just against literature like Narnia.
In other words, are you then against Pilgrim's Progress? (There is another ongoing thread on its value.) By many of your statements at face value, reading Pilgrim's Progress is a waste of time.

Karen [/QUOTE]

I think it's very sad that so many people have read pilgram's progress and have been given another gospel.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

I think it's very sad that some assume they know what others believe or are thinking, merely by the type of FICTION they choose to read. Get over yourself, please. We all have.

No one is purporting that CON or Pilgrim's Progress is the level of the Gospel. NNE HAS SAID THAT. No one has said that ANY allegory should be accepted over the Gospel or any part of the Bible for that matter. Stop putting words in our mouths, stop assuming you anything about those that post here, and by all means, stop questioning the motives of those that enjoyed the Biblical parallels in a fictional story.

In His Grip,
joshua

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Originally posted by kiwimac:
eloidalmanutha

You say C.S. Lewis was "Supposedly" a Christian. When did God give you the ability to judge another's salvation?

As for the use of allegory in telling the truths of the scriptures, it is a human thing and I assume God is happy with it, certainly there are no commandments telling us not to use allegory and parallelism.

Kiwimac

By their fruit you shall know them - Jesus Christ.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and all of you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that all of you cannot do the things that all of you would.