New Birth before and Unto Faith !

[DHK]

You hit the nail on the head, those who teach that they are saved by their act of Faith or believing, they are no different than any other work religion.

For salvation is not of works, which is described by the word ergon :

Again you are denying the Scriptures by lumping faith into the category of works, when Scripture deny such. You deny Romans 4:3-5: Eph.2:8,9; Rom.5:1, and various other Scriptures. I don't know how you can deny all this Scripture and still say that faith is a work. It isn't. The Bible clearly says it isn't.

Believing is a work, an activity of the Mind or Heart, for they are the same thing. The greek word for heart in Rom 10:9-10 is defined here:

Are we to accept your definition above and beyond that which is of the Bible? I think not. Salvation is by faith. It is the gift of God freely received by faith. What does a person have to DO to receive a gift? Nothing! By faith they receive it. By faith a child receives a gift from their parents knowing their parents will not give them a bomb or anything detrimental to them. That is where the faith is. It is not a work.

a) that organ in the animal body which is the centre of the circulation of the blood, and hence was regarded as the seat of physical life

And this is how you would define faith??
You are way off.

There is no significant if any difference in the heart of man or the mind of man !

There is a difference in how it is used. Stephen Hawkings gets paid for the use of his mind. So do teachers, professors, writers, etc. That has nothing to do with faith. Who gets paid for "doing faith"? Answer that!
The answer is obvious. No one, because faith is not a work.

Gen 6:5

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Now who wants to argue and debate that the imagination and thoughts of man are not directly related to his mind !

Is there a point there somewhere? Did they have to work at having evil thoughts?

Now the word believe in both Rom 10:9-10 are performance verbs, action verbs ! Believing is performed with the hearth or mind, and falls into what the scripture defines as a work !

You haven't demonstrated that.

So you can deny it from here to dooms day, if you believe in salvation because of your faith, believing, you believe in salvation by works !

If you deny that salvation is by faith, you deny Biblical salvation.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: There is a difference in how it is used. Stephen Hawkings gets paid for the use of his mind. So do teachers, professors, writers, etc. That has nothing to do with faith. Who gets paid for "doing faith"? Answer that!
The answer is obvious. No one, because faith is not a work.

HP: Ask a housewife who get paid for doing work. She works and does not get paid. What does this prove?

I fail to see any logic coming from your illustration.

 

[DHK]

HP: Ask a housewife who get paid for doing work. She works and does not get paid. What does this prove?

I fail to see any logic coming from your illustration.

There is nothing stopping you from paying a housewife from doing work. It is work. Do you not keep up with the politics of your own nation. Romney's wife was just slammed by a democrat for not being a working-wife. Whereas she was a wife and mother who raised five children. The statement had to be retracted and profusely apologized for. The Democrats are busy in doing damage control. Mothers are some of the hardest working people in the American/Canadian workforce. Their work should be noted whether or not they receive actual dollars for it. It is work!!!!!!!!!!!
Ask any mother. Tell a mother that she doesn't work, and get prepared for a slap in the face.

 

[savedbymercy]

dk

Are we to accept your definition above and beyond that which is of the Bible?

The word work ergon, that is the word Paul was inspired to use Eph 2:9 ! Do you deny that the word for work here is inspired by God ?

 

[savedbymercy]

hp

HP: Show me one quote by anyone on this list that has ever stated that we are saved by anything we do.

You need to look for it yourself, I am not here to serve you. However a great many people believe and have stated they are saved because they did something, like for instance, to believe on Christ or to repent of their sins, or to confess their sins. I am not going to make no special effort for you, but if and when someone posts that concept again, and I see it, I will bring it to your attention then !

 

[DHK]

dk
The word work ergon, that is the word Paul was inspired to use Eph 2:9 ! Do you deny that the word for work here is inspired by God ?

Does it matter? A word is defined by its context, not by its etymology nor by simply one definition of the word. Context defines the word. Obviously it does not mean the work of a housewife, does it?

 

[Yeshua1]

dk



The word work ergon, that is the word Paul was inspired to use Eph 2:9 ! Do you deny that the word for work here is inspired by God ?

You do know that the Bible teaches that IF we have not placed our faith/belief in Jesus to be our saviour, we are still lost and dead in our sins!

 

[savedbymercy]

You do know that the Bible teaches that IF we have not placed our faith/belief in Jesus to be our saviour, we are still lost and dead in our sins!

Thats a false statement, Christ death saved those He died for apart from their Faith, thats works salvation, a damnable heresy !

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

Does it matter?

Of course it matters, we are talking about God's inspired word ! Every word of God is very important !

 

[DHK]

Thats a false statement, Christ death saved those He died for apart from their Faith, thats works salvation, a damnable heresy !

That if thou shalt believe in the Lord Jesus Christ thou shalt be saved.

There is something wrong with the false statement that you posted. It remains false, as the Bible remains true.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

That if thou shalt believe in the Lord Jesus Christ thou shalt be saved.

I have no problem with that statement It is when you make believing which is an act of man, the condition to get saved, that you teach salvation by works, which is a false gospel !

Believing is an act of the mind, its a work !

 

[DHK]

dhk



I have no problem with that statement It is when you make believing which is an act of man, the condition to get saved, that you teach salvation by works, which is a false gospel !

Believing is an act of the mind, its a work !

IOW, You deny this verse:

if thou shalt believe in the Lord Jesus Christ thou shalt be saved.

You deny the Word of God.

 

[savedbymercy]

IOW, You deny this verse:

if thou shalt believe in the Lord Jesus Christ thou shalt be saved.

You deny the Word of God.

You say I deny it, but to me you are making false accusations ! I just told you I agree with it ! I do not agree with you on it. You believe it is teaching a conditional salvation based upon man's act of Believing, thats works !

 

[DHK]

You say I deny it, but to me you are making false accusations ! I just told you I agree with it ! I do not agree with you on it. You believe it is teaching a conditional salvation based upon man's act of Believing, thats works !

No salvation is unconditional. It is the free gift of God (Rom.6:23). As with any gift, it must be received by faith.
You do err calling "faith" a work. In so doing you deny the Word of God, which declares very plainly that faith is not a work (Rom.4:3-5).
You disregard the teaching of Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God.

It is as if you would cut these scriptures out of your Bible and throw them into the garbage--all because you define "faith" as a work, when it is not.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

No salvation is unconditional

Yes it is, but you deny that. You teach that it is condtioned upon mans act of belief, a work !

You do err calling "faith" a work. In so doing you deny the Word of God, which declares very plainly that faith is not a work (Rom.4:3-5

There is not one word in Rom 4:3-5 that states that Faith or believing is not a work !

You disregard the teaching of Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God.

No I don't, however Those who Christ died for were declared Justified by God by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ Rom 4:25, you deny that ! The Word of God. You deny the Death of Christ, it's accomplishment before God for all for whom He died !

 

[Yeshua1]

the atonement of jesus, substitionary death, is the basisof us getting justifed withGod , BUT must receive that free gift by faith!

 

[savedbymercy]

the atonement of jesus, substitionary death, is the basisof us getting justifed withGod , BUT must receive that free gift by faith!

False Gospel, works salvation !

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Yeshua1: the atonement of jesus, substitionary death, is the basisof us getting justifed withGod , BUT must receive that free gift by faith!

HP: If ones faith is not preceded by or co-mixed with repentance for ones sins, they shall perish with or without faith. "Unless ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

By the way, sbm simply has no clue as to what a works salvation is all about. You have said nothing that merits the remark by sbm. :thumbs:

 

[savedbymercy]

hp

HP: If ones faith is not preceded by or co-mixed with repentance for ones sins, they shall perish with or without faith. "Unless ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

This is works salvation all day long !

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Tell that to Christ Jesus Sbm, since it was Christ Himself that commanded all men to repent or perish. Go ahead. Tell Jesus he taught a works based salvation.