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New Doctor Who

Discussion in 'Travel Forum' started by ccrobinson, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    ***Utopian thoughts***
    Pete, did you forget what the Doctor did in Smith and Jones, taking his tie off for Martha before he even met her? I think the same thing has happened with Master Saxon.

    I've started watching The Enemy Within again in order to get some information about the Eye of Harmony, and the Master's fate at the end of the movie. The question is not only how did the Master come to have at least one more regeneration, but how did he gain that particular body? Eric Roberts, Enemy Within Master, looks nothing like Derek Jacobi (who was brilliant as the pre-regeneration Master), so how did that all take place?

    I speculated earlier about the Time War and the Eye of Harmony, but the Master had to get out of the Eye before the Time War started. If he had gotten out as a result of the Time War, the Doctor would have sensed him. We already know that Time Lords can sense each other, and there was no doubt that 10 sensed the exact moment that the Master was reborn.

    Somehow, the Master got out of the Eye, stole himself a body (which, admittedly, isn't hard for him to do), and then stole a TARDIS. Maybe he stole the body of another Time Lord? Where's the Master's TARDIS?

    Isn't it likely that he gave the Daleks the necessary technology to start the Time War? I think we've made the assumption (which was perfectly reasonable considering what we knew) that they developed it on their own, but now that we know the Master is alive, it's not a stretch at all to say that he gave them the technology. Perhaps he gave it to them and then became human, avoiding the repercussions of the war, knowing that he would eventually open the watch.

    Also, what's the significance of the Doctor's hand? They showed it to us in Act 1, so it will obviously come into play somehow.

    Props to the writers.

    The "parlor trick" that the Doctor did in Smith and Jones was an effective setup for us to go along with Master Saxon affecting the Doctor before he was awakened.

    The Face of Boe, obviously.

    In Human Nature, they sold us on the Chameleon Arch, setting into motion the thought process that a Time Lord could have used it to save himself/herself from the affects of the Time War.

    I was pretty sure that The Enemy Within was considered canon, and that was firmly established when John Smith drew a picture of himself as 8.

    Not every book/comic/novel about Doctor Who is considered canon. Human Nature was a novel that Paul Cornell wrote during 7's era. Since it was adapted for 10, it couldn't have been considered canon for 7. RTD isn't George Lucas, so he's not going to mess up the canon of the series like that.

    In Blink, the Doctor himself tells us that time is made up of "wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff", setting us up to buy the idea that Master Saxon could be "awakened" in the year 100 trillion (or whatever it is), and still affect the Doctor in 2007.

    I'll post more about The Eye of Harmony once I finish the movie, hopefully tonight.
    ***end of Utopian thoughts***
     
  2. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    I have the answer.

    *** spoiler ***
    In The Enemy Within, the Master is conning Chang Lee into helping him. The Master shows Chang the Eye of Harmony and describes it as "the heart of the structure."

    Q: What is the Eye of Harmony?

    A: The heart of the structure. The structure is the TARDIS.

    The Eye of Harmony is the heart of the TARDIS.

    What did Rose say in Parting of the Ways?

    I looked into the TARDIS. And the TARDIS looked into me.


    *** end spoiler ***
     
  3. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    Oh, btw, after thinking about it more, I don't think I like the explanation I offered up in the previous post. It leaves too many important questions unanswered.
     
  4. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    A few last thoughts before The Sound of Drums screens in the UK.

    *** spoiler ***
    I watched bits and pieces of Utopia and, since we didn't know who he was at the time, we may not have been paying attention to some of the things that Yana said prior to opening the watch. Ok, it was me that had forgotten what Yana said. *insert smilye here*

    #1, the words Dalek and Time War meant something to him. However, he got out of the Eye of Harmony, I'm guessing he got out during the Time War.

    #2, when Martha asked about where he got the watch, he said, "I was found with it. An orphan in the storm. I was a naked child found on the coast of the silver devestation. Abandoned with only this."

    #3, I made the statement after Family of Blood that, nobody matter how much we try and hide, what we are comes through. It should mean something about The Master that he was a kindly old man before opening the watch. Of course, it could mean that I have no idea what I'm talking about <insert smiley here>

    *** spoiler end ***
     
  5. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    This thread is starting to become my blog, I think. :)

    I went visiting the Doctor Who forum at a website and quickly found posts that made me roll my eyes. I just don't get people who didn't like The Sound of Drums. I loved it. Maybe I'm getting too invested in the show that it irritates me when I hear various complaints about it. Like, maybe I'm too obsessed with it or something. Do you guys think I'm obsessed at all? I mean, the last 5 posts here are mine. Does that sound like obsession to anybody? Nah, probably not. ;)

    *** the spoiler stuff starts here ***
    I read people complaining about how they didn't like The Master, preferring instead the Master as played by Anthony Ainley. Who, of course, only did what he did because of JNT's misguided directions. I'm not somebody who likes change all that much, but, I like how The Master is different now from previous incarnations. Every incarnation of the Doctor is different from the last one. Why shouldn't that be the case with The Master too?

    BTW, as a throw-away, I'm not a big fan of Doctor #3, but I did like Roger Delgado's Master.

    Back to TSOD, why does The Master say, "Too late" when the Doctor says he can help? The Master could stop it all at any time, but the "too late" comment suggests that he can't.

    Who are the Toclafane? I've seen speculation about Daleks, Cybermen, Gelth, and Timelord children. I think all of those are wrong.

    The Toclafane tell The Master the following while he's watching the Teletubbies.

    "We have to escape. Because it's coming, sir, the darkness, the never-ending darkness. Terribly, terrible cold. We have to run and run and run."

    Then, the Master tells the Doctor later, "If I told you the truth, your hearts would break."

    I have a crazy theory about this.

    Perhaps the major arc this season is survival. Every single story has been about a species doing whatever it takes to survive. 42 is arguable, but I can make that argument. The Toclafane, whoever they are, have the same motive.

    Let's say that the Toclafane carry what humans will become. For example, all Morbius needed was a body for his brain. What if the Toclafane are the "bodies", or "containers", for humans in the far future? Like, say, 100 trillion years. What if Utopia is a lie and the humans who went there were turned into the Toclafane, like what happened with the Age of Steel Cybermen? What if the Paradox Machine brought them back to take over the Earth from the Toclafane's distant past? That would definitely be a paradox.

    I'm sure my speculation is utterly and completely wrong.

    *** end spoiler ***

    I can't wait for next Saturday.
     
  6. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Sound of Drums, as CE's Doctor would have said, was brilliant! Homages to Captain Scarlett and also the classic series (cp Simm's character watching the Teletubbies with Delgado's watching the Clangers in The Sea Devils)

    Spoiler***One of the theories I've heard about the Toclafane is that they're Time Lord 'spirits' who were rejected by the Vortex, 'fallen angels' as it were.
     
  7. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    No, no, no, not brilliant. Fantastic!

    :wavey:
     
  8. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    D'oh! Of course!
     
  9. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    ***spoiler***
    Let's assume the spelling of Toclafane is actually Toclofane. An anagram of Toclofane is Once of a TL. I don't know if it means anything, but if it does, the "fallen angel" theory fits.
    *** end spoiler***
     
  10. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Aha! Indeed!

    ***Spoiler***It kind of makes the hymn in Family of Blood even more sinister:

    "He who would valiant be 'gainst all disaster
    Let him with constancy follow the Master"!
     
    #210 Matt Black, Jun 26, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2007
  11. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    *** spoiler ***
    I've watched the end of The Sound of Drums at least a half-dozen times and will undoubtedly watch it a few more times before I see Last of the Time Lords. I guess you can call it morbid curiosity, because it's weirdly fascinating how badly things have gone for the Doctor. And the music that starts up right before Martha teleports off the Valiant is enough to break your heart. It's the same music they played at the end of Doomsday when Rose became trapped in the Age of Steel Universe.

    We really should have known, not guessed, but known, that Mr. Saxon was the Master. The reason we should have known this is because Mister Saxon = Master No Six. Roger Delgado, Anthony Ainley, Gordon Tipple (The Daleks disintegrate him at the beginning of The Enemy Within), Eric Roberts (Enemy Within), Derek Jacobi (Utopia) and now John Simms make 6 Masters. Peter Pratt (Deadly Assassin Master) and Geoffrey Bevers (Keeper of Traken Master) aren't counted because they were technically still the Delgado Master.

    I don't have a good theory, or any theory really, about who Lucy Saxon is. I watched the end of SoD this morning and noticed something interesting. While the Master was aging the Doctor, she was looking at the floor, seemingly embarrassed to watch. It seemed like a strange thing for her to do. She's either evil, ala the Master, or she's totally under his spell and has become insane.

    I think it's the latter. This doesn't totally explain what she seems to know about the Toclofane, but it does help explain the open-mouth kissing on national TV. Or, do the British do that a lot? *smile*


    Dancing when the sky is ripped open is the mark of the insane. As is the look of exhiliration when the Master orders the slaughter of 600,000,000 people. Looking down in embarrasment when the Master ages the Doctor is not the mark of evil, or insanity. That's a look of somebody who still has a vestige of her humanity intact.

    Or else it's something else I haven't thought of. I've heard a theory that she's Romana, having changed into human herself. I hope this isn't the case, because I find it impossible to believe that she, as a human, would be Ok with everything that's been going on.
    *** spoiler end ***

    This week is very long waiting for Last of the Time Lords.
     
  12. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    That's the theory doing the rounds over here, too
     
  13. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    *** spoiler ***
    I want to correct something that I missed on earlier viewings of SoD. I said that Lucy looked down, seemingly embarrassed about the Doctor being tortured (for lack of a better word). I don't think that's right. First, she was up on a landing, so looking down at the Doctor made sense. Second, she does this thing where she sort of licks her lips. That's not it exactly, but she does something to suggest that she actually enjoyed watching her husband torture the Doctor.

    After seeing that last night, I think it very likely that she wasn't embarrassed by it but all, but enjoyed seeing it. Which makes more sense for somebody who dances at the end of the world.

    Over on Scifi.com, somebody brought up the best theory about who the Toclafane are is one that I suggested on Monday, that they're what the humans who left for Utopia actually become. The best argument for that is that the Toclafane in SoD, and the humans in Utopia, both said the same thing about fleeing the darkness.

    It also fits in with the paradox better than the Time Lord theory.
    *** spoiler end***

    Is it Saturday yet? :)
     
  14. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    Found something else of note.

    *** spoiler ***
    I watched Utopia again tonight looking for clues about the Toclafane. BTW, the spelling change means that I'm going with the theory that says that the Toclafane are what the Utopian humans become.

    Remember in Utopia when the unnamed guy goes into the room under the rocket to get something important done? The Futurekind woman sabotages the power and he winds up disintegrating. Fast forward to The Sound of Drums when President Winters is disintegrated. The disintegration is identical to the Stedt (spelling?) Radiation death in Utopia.

    *** end spoiler ***
     
  15. Pete

    Pete New Member

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    Been trying to get back to thread but been flat out here, mum been in hospital for a week.... :( Anyways......

    All week I have been planning to say here "I'm a Sound Of Drums heretic", until just read plot of Last Of The Time Lords on wiki. Sounds like they fixed a few of the things that bugged me, but after reading that I'll never be able to look at the Face of Boe the same way again :BangHead: :tonofbricks: :eek:


    Will throw a bit more of 2ยข worth in later when have chance to watch LOTTL.
     
  16. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I don't think any of us saw the Face of Boe thing coming.

    Lots of Christian themes, just reinforcing the well-known theory over here that RTD's a lousy atheist: "WWTDD?" (What Would The Doctor Do?), forgiveness, spreading the 'Good News' , and a quasi-'world wide moment of prayer'.
     
  17. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    Patting myself on the back over here about figuring out who they were. :)

    Excellence abounds in the season finale.

    For you American lurkers, there's good news. We don't have to wait until September to see the new season. This Friday, Scifi is showing a Season 2 Doctor Who marathon. At 7pm CDT, they're showing The Runaway Bride, followed by Smith and Jones.

    There's an old adage in show business. "Leave 'em wanting more." For the 3rd season, Doctor Who leaves us wanting more.

    Huge props to RTD and his team. This was, arguably, the best season ever of Doctor Who.
     
  18. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Apparently Kylie's in the Christmas Special and Catherine Tate returns as a full-time companion in Season 4 (Donna in The Runaway Bride); not sure how I feel about the latter development. The good news is that Martha will return halfway through Season 4 as a companion after a stint in the Torchwood spin-off.
     
  19. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    After hearing so many say that Doctor Who couldn't afford to pay Catherine Tate, I'm surprised that she's coming back regularly. I didn't really care for Donna at first, but she grew on me as the episode went along. I can live with her coming back.

    Martha coming back is great news. :thumbs:

    BTW, for the lurkers, Matt let the cat out of the bag about Martha, but the news that she leaves the Doctor after LotTL will not hamper your enjoyment of that story in any way.
     
  20. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    C4K, are you still keeping up with Doctor Who S1? You have to have seen Father's Day by now. Have you seen The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances yet? What do you think about what you've seen so far?

    Bapmom, you still lurking around here? Did you get to watch Runaway Bride and Smith and Jones last week?
     
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