New Doctor Who

[Pete]

cc, yup, even though 9 and Rose got my top spots for Doctor and companion, I think GotD might have had my spot for best story...I'm not too sure now though. HN was "fantastic". Definitely top 5 even if I don't break and give it the #1 spot. Depends oh how they go with FoB, but by Matt's description it picked up where HN left off "I don't think I've looked forward to a Doctor Who episode more than I am FoB." Took the words out of my mouth cc

C4K, or do you mean season 27? I think they could have done without the "gas exchange" stuff, but apart from that I loved Margaret and rest of the Slitheen family. Oh boy have you got a great episode coming next week...

 

[Pete]

*shudders* "The fury of the Time Lord...." So far I would have doubted 10 could have dealt with Mister Saxon if he is you-know-who, now though....I'm just glad I had a young lady in Sunday school a couple of years ago that looked a bit like the girl in this episode or I'ld never look in a mirror again

John's decision....WOW! Even though we knew what he would do, seeing his struggle to get to it....Then to top it all off there are all the Gospel parallels in the story.

So I think I hereby officially decree that the HN/FoB double is #1 on my fave Who episodes list, and even promote 10 to 3rd on my Doc list behind 9 & 4, sorry to the great 3

And still 4 episodes to go this year, will they be able to top this?!

 

[ccrobinson]

DT was already in my top 3 before this story and after HN/FoB, I don't have much of an argument with placing him at the top of the list. He was brilliant, especially in FoB.

The fury of the Time Lord

First, I think I know how we can say certain things here without spoiling it for those who haven't see the stories, like bapmom and the lurkers. Changing the font color is the equivalent of spoiler tags. If you don't want to be spoiled, then don't highlight the next paragraph. Also, this will only work if you haven't changed from the default color for the BB.

*** Spoiler alert ***
One of the things that I think we were led to believe in HN is that the Doctor feared what the family could do to him. But, with the way that FoB ended, what we actually learn is that the Doctor did everything he could do to keep from imprisoning them forever. He remembers what happened to Borusa at the end of The Five Doctors.

Although she's ultimately wrong about the Doctor's bravery, Joan made a great point about what John was willing to do for all humans, and what the Doctor was unwilling to do for her. But, she said what she did because she had to. I don't think she would have been able to live with herself if she hadn't painted John as the hero and the Doctor as the coward.
*** Spoiler alert over ***

HN/FoB take over the top spot from Gridlock as the best of the season.

Oh boy have you got a great episode coming next week...

Not only next week, but the reason of the season. Season 1, or 27 if you prefer, is excellent from Dalek through Parting of the Ways. It's actually better, since there are so many seasons, to refer to them as CE's only, DT's 2nd, etc.

At some point over the last 2 years since this thread was opened, we discussed which season was the best ever. Now that we're 2 years past CE's season, I think it's become easier to say that CE's one season is the best from beginning to end. Every story is excellent. There are no stories like Love&Monsters, or 42 (which I liked, but others say "eh" about).

I think the 2nd best season is Tom's first one, which had the now legendary Genesis of the Daleks. The problem is that it also had the rather pedestrian Revenge of the Cybermen. RotC had great lines like, "You've got no planet, no influence, nothing! You're just a bunch of pathetic tin soldiers skulking about the galaxy in a decrepit space ship." and "Harry Sullivan is an imbecile!". But, those lines alone don't save the story.

I think I'll leave GotD at #1 on my list for now, but HN/FoB comes in at a very close 2nd.

 

[Pete]

9 blasted his way past the legendary pair of 3 & 4 to top of my list, but 10 hasn't had same impact for me....even if he was there for the best story ever After HN/FoB he passed 3 and has 4 in sight, but 1 will be another story.

Great idea with the spoiler colours cc!

Spoiler

Towards the end of The Christmas Invasion 10 said he was a no second chances kind of guy, but has he really shown that level of intensity all that often since then? There were some lightning flashes here and there, but what he unleashed against the Family was the storm the Daleks feared from 9, especially when it's remembered the Family would have only lasted about another month anyway. They felt the full "fury of the Time Lord", yet only recently he offered peace to the last remaining (at that stage anyway) Dalek. I wonder if events of 42 had anything to do with that. When he was possessed the Doctor did start to attempt to describe regeneration to Martha...

One of the things that made me promote the story to first on the list was due to the way it got me to re-think the Doctor. 30 years ago I would have loved to have the TARDIS key, haha and maybe 30 days ago too come to think of it. Now though seeing "John's" struggle, the life he will miss out on, if I was in the same spot I think I'ld stick with the inflatable TARDIS my mate gave me vs the real one.

The thing that really put it first past the post for me though were all the Gospel parallels. Could use the whole double as one great big sermon illustration.

Although 9 himself and Rose were "fantastic", I've got 4's first season on top of the list. 9's season loses a couple of points due to the Slitheen family "gas exchange" thing, and the ... "I'll try anything once" references with Capt Jack.

 

[ccrobinson]

I had completely forgotten, or never remembered in the first place, the "I'll try anything once" stuff with Harkness.

I think there a number of things to take away from HN/FoB the more I think about it.

*spoiler*
There are gospel parallels here. One man dies for the whole world, and is resurrected as a god. Impossible to miss that one. And I hear tell that RTD is an atheist? Interesting.

Another lesson that we would all do well to learn is that what we are comes through, no matter how hard we try to hide it. Not only did it come through in John's writings, but did you notice that he didn't fire his weapon, not even once, when the strawmen were advancing into the schoolyard? You could even tell he had conflicting thoughts. On the one hand, "Why am I not firing this weapon?" and on the other, "I simply cannot shoot this gun if there's a chance I could kill somebody."

I was horribly wrong about Timothy of course, which is no big deal to me, but I always find it fascinating how the Doctor changes just about everybody he comes in contact with, usually for the better. Timothy's comment of, "Coward any day." is one of those changes. I think he had that in him anyway, but the Doctor affirmed it without ever saying those words to him.

A couple of weeks ago, I said that I wasn't looking forward to Human Nature. The reason is that I was thinking we were going to see another Superman II and the Doctor was going to change himself to human because he fell in love. Because if he was going to do that with anybody, it would have been for Rose. If he doesn't change that way for Rose, then there's really nobody else that he should do it for, except maybe Madame du Pompadour. I actually breathed a sigh of relief that I wasn't going to be watching Superman II.
**spoiler ending**

I've been watching some of 4's stories lately, and I need some help with a possible continuity error. It's a big one relating back to Sarah Jane and what she said in School Reunion.

At the end of Terror of the Zygons, Sarah decided to leave the Doctor, but he talked her into letting him take her home. At the end of Android Invasion, she was going to leave again, and the Doctor talked her into letting him take her home. It wasn't until The Hand of Fear that the Doctor was forced to leave her behind and he left her in the wrong town.

Since she seemed fine with leaving at the end of TotZ and AI, why was she so upset in School Reunion about how he didn't come back for her? Either the writers hoped we wouldn't notice, or else there's something else. Maybe Sarah was really upset in School Reunion because she didn't get to name her terms. She pretty much got tossed out and that's what really annoyed her about leaving. What do you think?

 

[Matt Black]

Have just bought Robot, TB's first story, on DVD, which means I now have most of his first season - Robot, Ark in Space, Sontaran Experiment, + GotD - how sad am I?!

 

[ccrobinson]

Matt, You're just going to have trust me when I tell you that you're nowhere near as sad as I am.

 

[Matt Black]

Thanks!

*Slight spoiler alert*

Not terribly looking forward to Blink tomorrow evening: our TV guide says that the Dr and Martha make but a fleeting appearance and one of the reasons that Love and Monsters really didn't work for me was that it suffered from the same problem.

Hoping to be pleasantly surprised...

 

[ccrobinson]

Watched FoB again tonight. Bravo, DT, bravo. To the American lurkers (assuming there are any of course ), it's a cliche, but very true that you are in for a treat when Human Nature/Family of Blood airs later this year on SciFi.

Pete, the more I think about it, the higher that HN/FoB climbs on my list of best Doctor Who stories. It does get me to rethink everything we know about him.

** spoiler beginning **
This story also got me thinking about the Time War. How powerful did the Daleks become to even be able to go after the Time Lords? It really brings home how dead serious 9 was when he said that all creation was at stake in the Time War.

BTW, anybody know the name of the song that played during the scarecrow battle?
** spoiler ended **

I love this show.

 

[Matt Black]

I take it all back - Blink was waaaay better than Love and Monsters. I'll never look at statues the same way again....

 

[Matt Black]

BTW, anybody know the name of the song that played during the scarecrow battle?

He Who Would Valiant Be (To Be A Pilgrim)

 

[Pete]

I blinked...ended up in '69. Thankfully that was the year I was born so just had to hang around and meet myself and tell me not to blink...This of course caused all sorts of freaky paradoxes that were quickly fixed by a pre Time War Time Lord

Utopia...a dead-end (no end pun intended) little story full of RTDisms :BangHead: .....Until THAT LINE from Yana...and then what can I say except...HE'S BACK!!!!!!

 

[ccrobinson]

I liked Blink. While I think the comparison between Love&Monsters is apt, I liked Blink better.

Utopia. Whew. Well, what to say. A total throwaway story who's existence was for one reason, and one reason only. I was on the edge of my seat at the end.

I really didn't think it was possible to make Doctor Who better, and maybe the next 2 weeks will show that RTD didn't make it better than it already was, but the end of Utopia was... fantastic.

***spoiler***
RTD, you got some 'splainin to do!

How did the Master get out of the Eye of Harmony? If the Time Lords ceased to exist as a result of the Time War, I would assume that the Eye just sort of went away, spitting out the Master in the process. How did he wind up being able to regenerate? I can't be sure about it, but once he took over Tremas' body at the end of Keeper of Traken, I didn't think that gave him the ability to regenerate. At the beginning of The Enemy Within, we see the Master get executed on Skaro, and he was still in that same body, wearing the same silly clothes (re: he looked like a penguin) that Anthony Ainley was forced to wear.

I'm sure more questions are to come as I think about the end of Utopia.

And, actually, they already have. After he regenerated, he taunted The Doctor (never a good idea btw, Master or not) about not telling him his plans. What plans could he possibly have? He'd been regenerated for 2 minutes.

I think that what The Doctor was doing with the sonic screwdriver wasn't designed to stop the TARDIS as The Master thought. I think the Doctor extended the "time vortex thingy" (yes, I'm channeling The Doctor), for lack of a better term, so that he and Jack and Martha would follow the TARDIS back to whenever the Master went.

I wonder if any other Time Lords used The Chameleon Arch? Romana? The Monk? Drax? Well, maybe not Drax. I couldn't stand him. Have I forgotten any other Time Lords?
***spoiler over***

I said this about Family of Blood.

I can hardly wait till next week.

That goes double for next week.

 

[Matt Black]

Ditto for me re Utopia: if the finale's double-bill is as good as the stories so far, it will make this season the best so far of the RTD batch IMO.

SPOILER***
You missed out Omega and the War Lord (executed - so we think - at the end of Troughton's final adventure) on your list of non-Gallifrey-resident Time Lords. It's quite possible that the Master used the whole Eye of Harmony (aka the Time Vortex?) thing to regenerate and possibly gain himself another 12 regenerations, then regenerated into the Yana incarnation, stuffed his 'essence' into the watch and rode out the Time War. Re the Master's plans, the trailer for next week shows him in contemporary Britain as the Prime Minister, bearing an uncanny resemblance to a certain Tony Blair, presumably as his Mr Saxon alter ego

 

[Matt Black]

Sorry, I forgot Morbius in my list of renegade Time Lords

 

[Pete]

[Pondering]
RTD will have to spend most of next week explaining how he got the Master back....and a regeneration with it.

One thing that has me thinking....If the Saxon we've seen in earlier episodes already was the Master (as events with Martha's mum seemed to suggest) it does have me wondering how the time-lines work. When the Master left events of Utopia how did he somehow manage to get back to that position earlier in the Doctor's time-line? Shouldn't we see Reapers, or would two Time Lords lurking around (even if one is the Master) be enough to keep Reapers away?

Roll on next week.
[/Pondering]

 

[Matt Black]

Answer: The Reapers only come into our dimension if your own timeline is crossed (as in adult Rose existing at the same time as infant Rose) IIRC; therefore there would be no problem with Sim's new Master travelling back to 'earlier in the season', as it were, and setting himself up in contemporary Britain as Mr Saxon

 

[Pete]

[Further pondering]
Matt, oops, heh I didn't think of that. But wouldn't that lead to a "Curse of Fatal Death" style game of time leapfrog? The Doctor has mentioned a couple of times that he can't go back when he has become a part of events, as the Master just caught up with the Doctor in Utopia wouldn't that mean he wouldn't be able to go back before that point in the Doctor's life? Then again again the Doctor said in Blink time was like a ball not a straight line, so I guess (sorry) "Who" knows.

Oh, and sorry to DT, but the minute or two of screen-time Simm had in Utopia almost made me wish he was 10 instead....
[/Further pondering]

 

[Matt Black]

Spoiler contd * Ah, but the Master/Mr Saxon doesn't actually meet the Dr in the earlier episodes

 

[Pete]

True, but he became a part of events that he couldn't have come a part of until he met the Doctor, then he went back to before meeting the Doctor to do it.....hahaha I'm just glad I'm not a Time Lord