Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
you have problems with English, as I have NEVER said this! Show me where I did? What we have in the Hebrew and Greek Bibles, are ONLY COPIES, and the ORIGINALS are LOST. Can you understand this?
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New Testament Quotations of the Old Testament
- Thread starter rlvaughn
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you have problems with English, as I have NEVER said this! Show me where I did? What we have in the Hebrew and Greek Bibles, are ONLY COPIES, and the ORIGINALS are LOST. Can you understand this?
So, the most intelligent, informed response you are capable of is a childish emoji? I suspected that might be the case.
Captain Obvious strikes again.
You did not distinguish between "original manuscripts" and "original language." If English is indeed your heart language (you never answered me when I asked that, and some of your sentences have been very poor English), then you need to distinguish between these two "original" terms, or you will be constantly misunderstood when you post on Bible translation or textual criticism.
In this post alone: you did not capitalize the first word; you used "as" instead of "since." You have made many, many errors in English syntax and semantics on this thread.
'All Scripture is God-breathed......' so the New Testament quotations from the O.T. are equally God-breathed. That does not mean that the LXX is inspired in parts of the O.T. that are not quoted in the N.T. Enoch really did have a vision of the Lord Jesus coming in judgement with tens of thousands of His holy ones (Jude 14; c.f. Revelation 19:11ff) but that does not mean that the rest of the book of Enoch is inspired.
Moreover, we have the Apostles telling us that the quotations from the LXX are directly from God:
Acts 1:16. 'Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David......' He then goes on to quote from Psalm 41:9.
Acts 4:25. 'You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of......David.....' [Psalm 2]
Acts 28:25. 'The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your forefathers when He said by Isaiah the prophet........' [Isaiah 6:9-10]
Romans 9:25. 'As [God] says in Hosea.....' [Hosea 2:23]
My church uses the NIV (1984) whilst I prefer the NKJV. When I am preaching I always quote from the NIV without commenting, unless I feel it has really got it wrong. I don't want to undermine the congregation's faith in the Bible it has in front of it.
Likewise the Apostles almost invariably used the LXX except on a couple of occasions where that translation got it badly wrong, when they went to the Hebrew text. I don't have examples in front of me, but I'm sure I can look them up.
Here's an example of Saved-by-Grace's tortured syntax. He seems to start every post with a lower case letter; he has the period outside of the quote marks at the end of his first sentence; in his second sentence; he has a comma where either he should end the sentence or put a semicolon.
Hmm. Maybe it's not that English is not his first language, but simply that he is just a millennial who never learned proper English, having attended a public school.
He's 56. Kinda old for a millennial.Here's an example of Saved-by-Grace's tortured syntax. He seems to start every post with a lower case letter; he has the period outside of the quote marks at the end of his first sentence; in his second sentence; he has a comma where either he should end the sentence or put a semicolon.
Hmm. Maybe it's not that English is not his first language, but simply that he is just a millennial who never learned proper English, having attended a public school.
But you might be on to something about British schools. They have been turning out ignoramuses for decades. (For all you Brits (Martin excluded), ignoramuses are people who are so ignorant they don't understand how ignorant they are.)
Following a line of thought...
Rob
Should translators correct OT Scriptures from NT writing?
It's been done in a few translations
I don't believe they should. As God is the Author of the scriptures He is allowed to change them and give a different nuance to their meaning or application. We are not.
Here is an instance where the NIV 'corrected' and OT passage based upon a quote by the author of Hebrews (presumably) from the LXX.
Hebrews 11:21
NIV By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph's sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.
ESV By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff.
Genesis 47:31
NIV "Swear to me," he said. Then Joseph swore to him, and Israel worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.
ESV And he said, “Swear to me”; and he swore to him. Then Israel bowed himself upon the head of his bed.
NIV By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph's sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.
ESV By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff.
Genesis 47:31
NIV "Swear to me," he said. Then Joseph swore to him, and Israel worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.
ESV And he said, “Swear to me”; and he swore to him. Then Israel bowed himself upon the head of his bed.
Rob
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
He's 56. Kinda old for a millennial.
But you might be on to something about British schools. They have been turning out ignoramuses for decades. (For all you Brits (Martin excluded), ignoramuses are people who are so ignorant they don't understand how ignorant they are.)
What a shame that people like you actually "represent" the Lord Jesus Christ. We have been here before, with your superior-than-thou attitude, which also recently offended a new member! Try to reflect Jesus and quit your pompous attitude.
For your information. Yes, I do live in England, but this does not mean that I was educated here. I was actually educated in India, where I lived for about 17 years. I did not even complete my schooling, as I had difficulties in studying. But, the Lord, Who is rich in His mercy towards me, saved me in Feb of 1982, and has taught me much over the years. I am not as clever as you, nor do I wish to be. I try my best with the Lord's help to live a pleasing life to Him, and can say ashamedly, fail Him more than I ought. PLEASE do not call people, who are your brothers in Jesus, "ignoramuses", as you do NOT know me. Remember Matthew 5:22.
Are you going to apologize to me for completely misrepresenting my position in regards to the LXX, accusing me of believing it is inspired? If not, this post is meaningless. I consider bearing false witness (which you did about me) to be far worse than calling someone an ignoramus (which TCassidy did not explicitly do to you), since it is forbidden in the Ten Commandments, but name-calling is not.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
TCassidy did not name mean, but the context did. Don't try to defend him. I am not apologizing for anything as I have not misrepresented you in any way. End of...
You see, this illustrates your lack of knowledge of English. I used the word "explicitly," but you apparently don't understand the difference between that and "implicitly." So you choose to apply to yourself the term "ignoramus," but TCassidy did not openly apply that word to you. In other words, you fell for his well-played ruse. Well, each to his own.
That's very sad. You don't even realize what you did. By accusing me of believing in an inspired LXX (which I clearly denied), you misrepresented me, lumping me in with the worst of the KJVO movement. That's insulting. And by refusing to recognize your insult, while accusing others of non-existent insults, you label yourself.
Please, grow a sense of humor and stop taking yourself so seriously. Nobody else does.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
You see, this illustrates your lack of knowledge of English. I used the word "explicitly," but you apparently don't understand the difference between that and "implicitly." So you choose to apply to yourself the term "ignoramus," but TCassidy did not openly apply that word to you. In other words, you fell for his well-played ruse. Well, each to his own.
That's very sad. You don't even realize what you did. By accusing me of believing in an inspired LXX (which I clearly denied), you misrepresented me, lumping me in with the worst of the KJVO movement. That's insulting. And by refusing to recognize your insult, while accusing others of non-existent insults, you label yourself.
no doubt you are a friend of TCassidy
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
Please, grow a sense of humor and stop taking yourself so seriously. Nobody else does.
would you ever call Jesus an "ignoramus", even as a joke?
So I'm going to sum up, for my part in understanding, the essence. There are New Testament quotations of and references to the Old Testament. I think we all agree that the OT was originally written in Hebrew (with the exception of some Aramaic portions). So any quotes of the Old Testament in the New Testament are translations of some sort, from Hebrew to Greek (regardless of who translated them). We may argue about how they came to be, but does anyone doubt that they were originally inspired in Hebrew but are in Greek in the New Testament, and that all of the New Testament is inspired?
Well, I did mention the deplorable condition of British education, and applied that to all Brits, and as you are a Brit I suppose, by implication, you could apply that to yourself, but that is on you, not on me.
I am not convinced he needs defending, but that is just me.
Yes, you have. And you have done the same to me. It may have been a failure to understand rather simple concepts, or it may have been a deliberate attempt at sophistry, but either way you were in the wrong.
We can only hope!
Actually John and I have never met. I am looking forward to meeting him some time in the near future.
John, I am planning on being at the Evangelical Theological Society annual meeting in Denver this November. Dr. Robinson has been invited to present a paper. Check your calendar. November 13-15. Hope you can make it.
Never met the man. But I respect his long service for Jesus Christ and his high level of education and knowledge. You should be more willing to listen to his knowledge, especially in the area of Bibliology, for which this thread exists.
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