NIV Calls Lucifer, "Jesus" (Article)

[skanwmatos]

Originally posted by michelle:
It is also a fact, and the truth, that this passage in Isaiah IS REFERRING TO SATAN.

Okay folks, you heard it here first. God inspired verse 4 incorrectly by saying He was talking about "the king of Babylon." And the KJV translators made a terrible mistake in that same passage! Why, they were dumb enough to actually translate the words as "the king of Babylon."

 

[michelle]

Skan,

Have you done an indepth study on the book of Revelation? I gather you haven't, because if you had, you would KNOW that this passage is clearly speaking of Satan.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[skanwmatos]

Originally posted by michelle:
This is typical from the mv crowd when faced with the clear and obvious truth, to then diffuse this truth with bringing attention to unimportant and irrelevant matters such as spelling errors.

If you only revered God's holy words of truth in the same manner - to which God has the power and ability to provide us a perfect translation in our own language, and to which he has.

This is typical from the KJVO crowd when faced with the clear and obvious truth, to then diffuse this truth with bringing attention to unimportant and irrelevant matters such as their ignorance.

If you only revered God's holy words of truth in the same manner - to which God has the power and ability to provide us His words in the language He inspired it in, which he has.

 

[michelle]

So Skan,

You like to reply to posts that you have nothing to refute it with, with a copycat style post? Real mature, and again, typical of the mv crowd.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[skanwmatos]

Originally posted by michelle:
Have you done an indepth study on the book of Revelation? I gather you haven't, because if you had, you would KNOW that this passage is clearly speaking of Satan.

Michelle, I have not only done an in-depth study of Revelation, I have preached completely through it, and taught it in both Bible College and Seminary. The problem is not in my not knowing Revelation, but in your denying the very words of God when He said He was talking about "the king of Babylon."

 

[skanwmatos]

Originally posted by michelle:
You like to reply to posts that you have nothing to refute it with, with a copycat style post? Real mature, and again, typical of the mv crowd.

You like to reply to posts that you have nothing to refute it with, with a copycat style post? Real mature, and again, typical of the KJVO crowd.

(If you can post mindless blather instead of intelligently discussing the issue, so can the rest of us. At least we spell correctly!)

 

[michelle]

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Okay folks, you heard it here first. God inspired verse 4 incorrectly by saying He was talking about "the king of Babylon." And the KJV translators made a terrible mistake in that same passage! Why, they were dumb enough to actually translate the words as "the king of Babylon."
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You also might want to pay close attention to the timing of Isaiah chapter 13, and also the first 9 verses of Isaiah chapter 14. Now reference these things to Daniel and Revelation, and this will tell you alot about just who this King of Babylon is and you will be greatly blessed.

We must rightly divide the word of truth.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[michelle]

-------------------(If you can post mindless blather instead of intelligently discussing the issue, so can the rest of us. At least we spell correctly!) -------------------------------


Go ahead, do what you wish, however you are displaying childlike behaviour.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[skanwmatos]

You are displaying childish behavior. (And I even spelled it right.)

 

[michelle]

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Michelle, I have not only done an in-depth study of Revelation, I have preached completely through it, and taught it in both Bible College and Seminary. The problem is not in my not knowing Revelation, but in your denying the very words of God when He said He was talking about "the king of Babylon."
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I will pray for you Skan, that the Lord will give you the understanding that you lack regarding this. Once you are given this understanding, you will be greatly blessed.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Ransom]

This is typical from the mv crowd when faced with the clear and obvious truth, to then diffuse this truth with bringing attention to unimportant and irrelevant matters such as spelling errors.

Is that why you ignored what I said about the word "Lucifer" saying no more about angels than it does about stars?

Your credibility is reaching into the negatives by now.

 

[Ransom]

Hey KJV-onlyists: For the second time, I am calling you out.

Will NO KJV-onlyist defend this unproven assertion and save their beliefs from total irrelevance? Are we just supposed to accept it because you say so? Codswallop, I say.

In order to claim that the NIV "confuses Jesus and Satan" because its rendering uses the words "morning star," the KJV-onlyists in this thread have presupposed something very important. That is, they have simply assumed that a symbol must stand for the very same object or person or idea every time it is used.

Why should I accept that?

If the KJV-onlyists can't show us why that is so, then there is no reason why we should accept their slander against the Word of God as presented in the NIV.

I'm calling you out. If you can't defend your assumption, then you have turned 9 pages of KJV-only rhetoric into a non-issue.

 

[skanwmatos]

Originally posted by michelle:
Now reference these things to Daniel and Revelation, and this will tell you alot about just who this King of Babylon is and you will be greatly blessed.

We know who the king of Babylon was. King Nebuchadnezzar.

 

[skanwmatos]

Originally posted by michelle:
I will pray for you Skan, that the Lord will give you the understanding that you lack regarding this. Once you are given this understanding, you will be greatly blessed.

I will pray for you Michelle, that the Lord will give you the understanding that you lack regarding this. Once you are given this understanding, you will be greatly blessed. Any maybe you will be delivered from your [SNIPPED} KJVO thinking too. God can do that, you know!

[ May 20, 2004, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]

 

[Charles Meadows]

Michelle,

There's nothing wrong with you seeing this as a "type" of satan. But I think you're not really addressing what Skan and others have said. Yes we baptists have always seen this as satan - but that is not explicity what the bible says. Really - how do we know that Lucifer is satan? Where is that stated? I'm not intending to push you or anything - I'm just saying that honestly the bible does not say that Lucifer is satan. It does make sense given Jesus talking about satan falling from the sky in Luke - but it is not written explicitly. And an in depth study of Isaiah reveals that this is an oracle against the king of Babylon.

Regarding the "star" thing - the term morning star is providing a dynamic translation. When we say "our Lord and Savior" to mean Jesus are we speaking inaccurately since these words are not equivalent? No!

"Heylel ben shachar" means heylel son of the early morning (literally). We DON'T know what heylel means but bright-shining one is a good possibility. The fact that he calls him son of the early morning likely means he's referring to the demigod represented by the planet Venus - since this was a prominent figure in some early Canaanite religious schemes. The term morning star captures the meaning of that phrase quite well even though the word kohav (star) is not used.

I for one respect and appreciate your love for the Word - but I think on this one you're letting your emotions trump your mind!

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by michelle:
If anyone is guilty of speaking a lie on this, it is you, and those that say the same as you. The Hebrew word Helel means bright one. No mention of the word star anyhwere to be gained.

Except in the footnotes of your own KJV, which, according to you, is the only acceptible translation. So is the KJV also wrong on this issue? It's a simple yes or no question.

 

[michelle]

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Except in the footnotes of your own KJV, which, according to you, is the only acceptible translation. So is the KJV also wrong on this issue? It's a simple yes or no question.
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Like I have said before, footnotes are not God's words, but are the words and opinions of man. I leave those things out, when it conflicts with the truth.

Sorry it is not a yes or no answer to your request, but I will answer questions addressed to me, the way I feel best to answer them, not the way you request I answer them.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[michelle]

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There's nothing wrong with you seeing this as a "type" of satan. But I think you're not really addressing what Skan and others have said. Yes we baptists have always seen this as satan - but that is not explicity what the bible says. Really - how do we know that Lucifer is satan? Where is that stated? I'm not intending to push you or anything - I'm just saying that honestly the bible does not say that Lucifer is satan. It does make sense given Jesus talking about satan falling from the sky in Luke - but it is not written explicitly. And an in depth study of Isaiah reveals that this is an oracle against the king of Babylon.
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An indepth study on chapter 13 of Isaiah, chapter 14 of Isaiah, Daniel and Revelation, among many others I could give, would give you a much better understanding of this passage and to what I am saying. I am not saying this passage doesn't refer to Nebuchadnezzar, but it is more importantly refering to Satan. Nebuchadnezzar, as I have indicated before, is the prototype of Satan and the antichrist to come. It is funny, how you are all approaching the scriptures, and prophecy the same as the jews did/do. This is what blinds them from seeing the truth. You are all christian and should know better than they, but yet you are blinded to this truth. Do an indepth study on these things, and you will understand more fully this passage, and be greatly blessed.

Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Dr. Bob]

Have noticed that some of you may come to the same conclusion that Job had about his wife and her interpretation of events.

Simply deal with the issue and treat a person who will not listen or respond or accept fact as a "troll". And pray for them, sincerely.

Alfred said, "There is none so blind as one who is willingly blind."

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by michelle:
Like I have said before, footnotes are not God's words, but are the words and opinions of man.

Yet, the words of the KJV are not God's words either. The word lucifer is not God's word, would you agree? By your own reasoning, the KJV should read "light bearer".