No need - DT has already done this for you. Now please do him the courtesy of answering the question.
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No condemnation in Christ Jesus !
- Thread starter savedbymercy
- Start date
savedbymercy
New Member
In Him By Substitution !
This Representative Union whereby the elect are in Christ by Eternal Election having been Chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4, it carries on into time, the Time of His Incarnation. His People was in Him when He came and took His Place under the Law Gal 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
He took on the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
He took on their Flesh and blood Heb 2:14a
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same;
Made like unto His Brethren Heb 2:17a
17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren,
And so He solidified the Truth of Eph 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Now this was so much so, that they were in Him as He was fulfilling the Law on Earth, and so He said to John the Baptist when He was prepared to be water baptized .but John forbade Him, Then Jesus Said this:
Matt 3:15
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
The Us means His body, those He represented ! Johns Baptism was a Baptism of Repentance, and in and of Himself Christ needed no Repentance, but those He represented in Him did.
Not only That, but when He actually died and was buried , and rose again the Third day, His seed in Him did also, for that's Paul's meaning Rom 6:2-5
2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
2 Cor 5:14-15
14For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15And that he died for[In behalf of] all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
Eph 2:6
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Now how be this Togetherness except they were in Him ? And He was their substitute. Thats what made it legally binding, a Legal Union with them He had, for they were His Seed, His Offspring.
This Representative Union whereby the elect are in Christ by Eternal Election having been Chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4, it carries on into time, the Time of His Incarnation. His People was in Him when He came and took His Place under the Law Gal 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
He took on the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
He took on their Flesh and blood Heb 2:14a
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same;
Made like unto His Brethren Heb 2:17a
17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren,
And so He solidified the Truth of Eph 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Now this was so much so, that they were in Him as He was fulfilling the Law on Earth, and so He said to John the Baptist when He was prepared to be water baptized .but John forbade Him, Then Jesus Said this:
Matt 3:15
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
The Us means His body, those He represented ! Johns Baptism was a Baptism of Repentance, and in and of Himself Christ needed no Repentance, but those He represented in Him did.
Not only That, but when He actually died and was buried , and rose again the Third day, His seed in Him did also, for that's Paul's meaning Rom 6:2-5
2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
2 Cor 5:14-15
14For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15And that he died for[In behalf of] all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
Eph 2:6
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Now how be this Togetherness except they were in Him ? And He was their substitute. Thats what made it legally binding, a Legal Union with them He had, for they were His Seed, His Offspring.
And hurling other proof-texts around validly expounds Jn 3:36 how, exactly?
Originally posted 7/12/2011.How do you reconcile John 3:36 with what you have posted?
And now what date is it?
How long does it take you to answer a simple question SBM?
Or is it that you cannot?
:thumbs: (Sitting here tapping fingers on desk!)
Dr. Walter
New Member
In my opinion all parties invovled here are wrong. SBM takes a truth to the extreme and thus makes it a false doctrine while the other side is equally wrong.
None of the scriptures used by SBM support his false theory that those chosen in Christ before the world began (Eph. 1:4) were prior to their actual existence justified and not under condemnation. He confuses God's PURPOSE with REALITY. According to God's PLAN, a plan not yet applied in time and space they were PURPOSED complete glorification. However, who would be foolish enough to argue they were actually in fact already glorified before they were born and never were sinners! That is what one must argue to argue they never were condemned in Christ before the world began! It is a stupid argument.
On the other hand, it is just as rediculous to deny there were those "chosen in him BEFORE" the foundation of the world, chosen unto salvation, chosen through setting apart by the Holy Spirit in order to be made holy, in order to believe the gospel truth (2 Thes. 2:13-14; Acts 13:48).
John 3:36 does not contradict either. John 3:18 states that all who come into this world are CONDEMNED ALREADY because they come in as unbeleivers and they come in therefore under the wrath of God. There is wrath where there is condemnation and only where there is no condemnation is there no wrath. The ones chosen before the foundation of the world are chosen to come to belief in Christ thus an admission they are in unbelief until the precise time they are seperated unto truth of the gospel by the Holy Spirit (1 Thes. 1:4-5; 2 Thes. 2:13-14).
In my opinion one side is as wrong as the other as both sides deny Biblical truth. One side denies the clearly stated Biblical doctrine of election before the world began, election UNTO salvation not BECAUSE of salvation UNTO holiness not BECAUSE of holiness UNTO beleif in the truth of the gospel not BECAUSE of belief in the truth of the gospel.
The other side is simply what has been known as HYPER-Calvinism which is just as erroneous. They are not already SAVED (justified, called, regenerated, glorified) before the world began but merey SET APART by divine PURPOSE (choice) to be saved in time and space.
None of the scriptures used by SBM support his false theory that those chosen in Christ before the world began (Eph. 1:4) were prior to their actual existence justified and not under condemnation. He confuses God's PURPOSE with REALITY. According to God's PLAN, a plan not yet applied in time and space they were PURPOSED complete glorification. However, who would be foolish enough to argue they were actually in fact already glorified before they were born and never were sinners! That is what one must argue to argue they never were condemned in Christ before the world began! It is a stupid argument.
On the other hand, it is just as rediculous to deny there were those "chosen in him BEFORE" the foundation of the world, chosen unto salvation, chosen through setting apart by the Holy Spirit in order to be made holy, in order to believe the gospel truth (2 Thes. 2:13-14; Acts 13:48).
John 3:36 does not contradict either. John 3:18 states that all who come into this world are CONDEMNED ALREADY because they come in as unbeleivers and they come in therefore under the wrath of God. There is wrath where there is condemnation and only where there is no condemnation is there no wrath. The ones chosen before the foundation of the world are chosen to come to belief in Christ thus an admission they are in unbelief until the precise time they are seperated unto truth of the gospel by the Holy Spirit (1 Thes. 1:4-5; 2 Thes. 2:13-14).
In my opinion one side is as wrong as the other as both sides deny Biblical truth. One side denies the clearly stated Biblical doctrine of election before the world began, election UNTO salvation not BECAUSE of salvation UNTO holiness not BECAUSE of holiness UNTO beleif in the truth of the gospel not BECAUSE of belief in the truth of the gospel.
The other side is simply what has been known as HYPER-Calvinism which is just as erroneous. They are not already SAVED (justified, called, regenerated, glorified) before the world began but merey SET APART by divine PURPOSE (choice) to be saved in time and space.
savedbymercy
New Member
In Him by Faith !
Finally by means of the Work of the Spirit, the New Birth believers are in Him by Faith. In this manner one can be said to have been in Christ before another as Paul said of this one Rom 16:7
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
This has to do with one knowing or realizing they are in Christ. They were converted to Christ before Paul was.
When the Holy Spirit brings us to belief of the Truth, we are then in Christ experimentally. 2 Thess 2:13
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Finally by means of the Work of the Spirit, the New Birth believers are in Him by Faith. In this manner one can be said to have been in Christ before another as Paul said of this one Rom 16:7
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
This has to do with one knowing or realizing they are in Christ. They were converted to Christ before Paul was.
When the Holy Spirit brings us to belief of the Truth, we are then in Christ experimentally. 2 Thess 2:13
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
savedbymercy
New Member
dw:
Lets see Jn 3:18
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:18 says nothing about all coming into the world condemned already. It states, those believing on Him are not condemned, which believing on Him is evidence of, where as those not believing, are showing themselves to already be condemned, evidenced by their not believing.
Jn 3:36
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In this scripture, those believing have already everlasting life, but those not believing, shall not see life, so that means they are reprobates and have no future hope of Salvation. SHALL NOT SEE LIFE !
Now, finally, the elect cannot be under condemnation while they are unbelievers, simply because while they are enemies or unbelievers, they have already been reconciled to God by the death of Christ. Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
And much more, being reconciled while unbelievers or enemies, they shall be saved by Christ Life in the future which is the exact opposite of those unbelievers in Jn 3:36, which states they shall not see Life, and that the wrath of God abideth on them.
The wrath of God cannot be upon anyone for whom Christ died simply because Christ has appeased God's wrath on their behalf !
John 3:18 states that all who come into this world are CONDEMNED ALREADY because they come in as unbeleivers and they come in therefore under the wrath of God.
Lets see Jn 3:18
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:18 says nothing about all coming into the world condemned already. It states, those believing on Him are not condemned, which believing on Him is evidence of, where as those not believing, are showing themselves to already be condemned, evidenced by their not believing.
Jn 3:36
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In this scripture, those believing have already everlasting life, but those not believing, shall not see life, so that means they are reprobates and have no future hope of Salvation. SHALL NOT SEE LIFE !
Now, finally, the elect cannot be under condemnation while they are unbelievers, simply because while they are enemies or unbelievers, they have already been reconciled to God by the death of Christ. Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
And much more, being reconciled while unbelievers or enemies, they shall be saved by Christ Life in the future which is the exact opposite of those unbelievers in Jn 3:36, which states they shall not see Life, and that the wrath of God abideth on them.
The wrath of God cannot be upon anyone for whom Christ died simply because Christ has appeased God's wrath on their behalf !
Dr. Walter
New Member
dw:
Lets see Jn 3:18
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:18 says nothing about all coming into the world condemned already. It states, those believing on Him are not condemned, which believing on Him is evidence of, where as those not believing, are showing themselves to already be condemned, evidenced by their not believing.
No one comes into the world as a believer in Christ!!! That is precisely why Jesus says they are "already" condemned as all come into the world as unbelievers and it is the unbeliever that is condemned. For your argument to be true you must prove that some come into the world as believers already and therefore not condemned. Good luck trying to prove that from scripture!
Jn 3:36
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In this scripture, those believing have already everlasting life, but those not believing, shall not see life, so that means they are reprobates and have no future hope of Salvation. SHALL NOT SEE LIFE !
The Greek text uses two present tense terms not a past tense term as you demand. So your statement "have already everlasting life" contradicts the language being used by John. Everlasting life is concurrent with believing and the tenses prove this. "Hath" translates a present tense verb. "Beleiveth" translates a present tense participle. Therefore your interpretation is WRONG!
Furthermore, you are wrong on your second interpretation. John uses the present tense again "believing not" and the future tense in "shall not see life" which only proves that as long as one continues in unbelief they "shall not" future tense see life not that they are reprobates that can never be saved. You are WRONG again and must PERVERT the Word of God to defend your error.
Now, finally, the elect cannot be under condemnation while they are unbelievers, simply because while they are enemies or unbelievers, they have already been reconciled to God by the death of Christ. Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Another perverted interpretation. Paul's point is not that the elect were never condemned when in sin, when in unbelief, when enemies (all of which demand they were condemned under sin and the proof is that they die) but rather the "death" of Christ preceded the readers obedience to gospel. The "death" of Christ preceded in time the conversion of those at Rome he is addressing. However, the "death" of Christ did not precede the saints living before the incarnation of Christ (Acts 10:43) and their conversion to the gospel. We were reconciled to God by Christs "death" and His "death" occurred in time and space not in eternity past.
And much more, being reconciled while unbelievers or enemies, they shall be saved by Christ Life in the future which is the exact opposite of those unbelievers in Jn 3:36, which states they shall not see Life, and that the wrath of God abideth on them.
The wrath of God cannot be upon anyone for whom Christ died simply because Christ has appeased God's wrath on their behalf !
You cannot reconcile friends only enemies and an UNCONDEMNED enemy does not need the "death" of Christ to be reconciled as the "death" of Christ is CONDEMNATION by substitution. Only the CONDEMNED need substitutionary death as no UNCONDEMNED person needs a substitute death and no one can deny that "death" is CONDEMNATION due to sin.
Your theory is bankrupt and you must distort scripture, ignore the contextual factors of the texts you take and use and abuse.
savedbymercy
New Member
dw:
Who said they did ? People come into the world Justified from their sins because Christ has already died for them. People come into this world having already had their legal guilt imputed on Christ, and so not on them. 2 Cor 5:19
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Unbelievers whom Christ has died for, have no condemnation upon them, and are already reconciled to God Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
A Unbeliever who is reconciled to God by Jesus blood is not under condemnation. If you believe and teach that, you believe a lie and you are saying rather you realize it or not, that Christ death alone for an individual does nothing.
Sorry shall not see life is a promise to those Jesus was talking about. They shall not see life. You can add to it if you like.
The elect, while they are in unbelief, enemies, because Christ has already reconciled them, they shall be saved by his Life. Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
So you have unbelievers [the elect] because Christ died for them, they SHALL be saved.
Then you have unbelievers, whom Christ did not die for, They shall not see life, but the wrath of God is abiding on them. Thats Judicial wrath.
The elect while unbelievers are not under God's wrath or condemnation, because Christ was their substitute for that.
No one comes into the world as a believer in Christ!!!
Who said they did ? People come into the world Justified from their sins because Christ has already died for them. People come into this world having already had their legal guilt imputed on Christ, and so not on them. 2 Cor 5:19
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Unbelievers whom Christ has died for, have no condemnation upon them, and are already reconciled to God Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
A Unbeliever who is reconciled to God by Jesus blood is not under condemnation. If you believe and teach that, you believe a lie and you are saying rather you realize it or not, that Christ death alone for an individual does nothing.
shall not see life" which only proves that as long as one continues in unbelief they "shall not" future tense see life not that they are reprobates that can never be saved.
Sorry shall not see life is a promise to those Jesus was talking about. They shall not see life. You can add to it if you like.
The elect, while they are in unbelief, enemies, because Christ has already reconciled them, they shall be saved by his Life. Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
So you have unbelievers [the elect] because Christ died for them, they SHALL be saved.
Then you have unbelievers, whom Christ did not die for, They shall not see life, but the wrath of God is abiding on them. Thats Judicial wrath.
The elect while unbelievers are not under God's wrath or condemnation, because Christ was their substitute for that.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dr. Walter
New Member
Try a little honesty with the evidence put before you! I pointed out that your past tense translation, which is the support of your interpretation of John 3:36 is completely erroneous as the text uses present tenses not past tenses. The future tense has reference to the continuous present tense condition of unbelief of which ALL MANKIND come into this world and so long as they CONTINUE in that state they "shall not" have eternal life. Try a little honesty!
Try a little honesty with the evidence placed before you in regard to John 3:17.
Try a little honesty with the evidence placed before in regard to Rom. 5. It is his "death" and his "death" did not occur before the world began. His death occurred in space and time.
Try a little honesty with the evidence placed before in regard to 2 Cor. 5:19. The "cross" did not occur before the world began but it occurred in time and space. The cross is proof that the elect were under condemnation of sin and were "condemned already" coming into this world by first birth because they came in in "unbelief" and it is all who are PRESENT TENSE in unbelief who are "condemned."
Try a little honesty with the evidence placed before you in regard to justification. We are justified "by faith" (Rom. 5:1-2) and that is in time and space at our regeneration/conversion experience. The only pre-world justification is the same in kind as our pre-world glorification (Rom. 8:29-30) and neither is actual or real or existent except by divine INTENT/PURPOSE before the world began.
Try a little honesty with the evidence placed before you in regard to John 3:17.
Try a little honesty with the evidence placed before in regard to Rom. 5. It is his "death" and his "death" did not occur before the world began. His death occurred in space and time.
Try a little honesty with the evidence placed before in regard to 2 Cor. 5:19. The "cross" did not occur before the world began but it occurred in time and space. The cross is proof that the elect were under condemnation of sin and were "condemned already" coming into this world by first birth because they came in in "unbelief" and it is all who are PRESENT TENSE in unbelief who are "condemned."
Try a little honesty with the evidence placed before you in regard to justification. We are justified "by faith" (Rom. 5:1-2) and that is in time and space at our regeneration/conversion experience. The only pre-world justification is the same in kind as our pre-world glorification (Rom. 8:29-30) and neither is actual or real or existent except by divine INTENT/PURPOSE before the world began.
dw:
Who said they did ? People come into the world Justified from their sins because Christ has already died for them. People come into this world having already had their legal guilt imputed on Christ, and so not on them. 2 Cor 5:19
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Unbelievers whom Christ has died for, have no condemnation upon them, and are already reconciled to God Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
A Unbeliever who is reconciled to God by Jesus blood is not under condemnation. If you believe and teach that, you believe a lie and you are saying rather you realize it or not, that Christ death alone for an individual does nothing.
Sorry shall not see life is a promise to those Jesus was talking about. They shall not see life. You can add to it if you like.
The elect, while they are in unbelief, enemies, because Christ has already reconciled them, they shall be saved by his Life. Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
So you have unbelievers [the elect] because Christ died for them, they SHALL be saved.
Then you have unbelievers, whom Christ did not die for, They shall not see life, but the wrath of God is abiding on them. Thats Judicial wrath.
The elect while unbelievers are not under God's wrath or condemnation, because Christ was their substitute for that.
savedbymercy
New Member
dw
I have given you the Truth, but I cannot make you believe it, thats up to God.
Try a little honesty with the evidence put before you!
I have given you the Truth, but I cannot make you believe it, thats up to God.
Dr. Walter
New Member
dw
I have given you the Truth, but I cannot make you believe it, thats up to God.
All you have done is ASSERTED that you have given the truth when in FACT you have perverted every single text you use as a proof text. You have JERKED every single PROOF TEXT you have used out of its context. I merely placed the text back into its context and you have not been able to deal with it honestly but simply IGNORE the evidence placed right in your face.
For example, you used a PAST tense response "ALREADY HAVE everlasting life" in the defense of your intepretation of John 3:36 when the actual text NEVER uses a Past tense but only PRESENT TENSES. Your response? - "0" You just ignored it and went right on ASSERTING pure ignorance and error but called it "the truth."
The same is true with your response/defense of John 3:17 and other texts. You are good at ASSERTING you have the truth but incapable of defending your interpretations by what the Word of God actually says.
savedbymercy
New Member
All you have done is ASSERTED that you have given the truth when in FACT you have perverted every single text you use as a proof text. You have JERKED every single PROOF TEXT you have used out of its context. I merely placed the text back into its context and you have not been able to deal with it honestly but simply IGNORE the evidence placed right in your face.
For example, you used a PAST tense response "ALREADY HAVE everlasting life" in the defense of your intepretation of John 3:36 when the actual text NEVER uses a Past tense but only PRESENT TENSES. Your response? - "0" You just ignored it and went right on ASSERTING pure ignorance and error but called it "the truth."
The same is true with your response/defense of John 3:17 and other texts. You are good at ASSERTING you have the truth but incapable of defending your interpretations by what the Word of God actually says.
The elect are reconciled and stand in the Favour of God while they are unbelievers. Rom 5:10
10For if, when we[The elect] were enemies[unbelievers], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
The non elect are not reconciled to God while they are enemies, thats the difference.
The elect are in God's reconciled Favour while unbelievers and enemies by nature. They are not condemned and under God's wrath, that nullify's Christ death for them.
Dr. Walter
New Member
AGain, the Bible teaches they were reconciled,justified, called, glorified, redeemed, sanctified by ETERNAL PURPOSE and in subjective reality. That is all, nothing more, zilch, nada, zip!
All your scriptures fall into those two classifications. There is no substantive actual real reconciliation, justification, sanctification in eternity past any more than there is glorification and all of these are PURPOSED in eternity but not APPLIED in eternity.
This is simple but too simple for you I guess?
All your scriptures fall into those two classifications. There is no substantive actual real reconciliation, justification, sanctification in eternity past any more than there is glorification and all of these are PURPOSED in eternity but not APPLIED in eternity.
This is simple but too simple for you I guess?
The elect are reconciled and stand in the Favour of God while they are unbelievers. Rom 5:10
10For if, when we[The elect] were enemies[unbelievers], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
The non elect are not reconciled to God while they are enemies, thats the difference.
The elect are in God's reconciled Favour while unbelievers and enemies by nature. They are not condemned and under God's wrath, that nullify's Christ death for them.
savedbymercy
New Member
AGain, the Bible teaches they were reconciled,justified, called, glorified, redeemed, sanctified by ETERNAL PURPOSE and in subjective reality. That is all, nothing more, zilch, nada, zip!
Te bible Teachs that the elect world never had its transgressions laid to its charge, hence no condemnation. 2 Cor 5:19
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
The elect , God never held them accountable legally for one sin, none..
Dr. Walter
New Member
Te bible Teachs that the elect world never had its transgressions laid to its charge, hence no condemnation. 2 Cor 5:19
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
The elect , God never held them accountable legally for one sin, none..
This text says nothing about eternity past. This text deals with Christ on earth on the cross at the time when Christ provided reconciliation by his own blood. This is talking about the PROVISION for reconcilition by Christ on the cross in time and in space in keeping with God's eternal purpose. Hence, this is God's eternal purpose "in Christ" being worked out in time and space.
So again, there are no scriptures that teach that we were saved, called, justified, regenerated, redeemed, glorified, sanctified, reconciled before the world began EXCEPT in purpose.
All other scriptures are by context constrained to time and space where provision and application are made.
savedbymercy
New Member
dw:
It does not have to. When was Christ made a Surety for God's Elect ? It was at the Everlasting Covenant. When did that occur ? From Everlasting. God in that Covenant Purposed not to Charge the sins of the Elect unto them, but unto their Surety. Thats how God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, not counting their trespasses against them.
2 Cor 5:19
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
This text says nothing about eternity past.
It does not have to. When was Christ made a Surety for God's Elect ? It was at the Everlasting Covenant. When did that occur ? From Everlasting. God in that Covenant Purposed not to Charge the sins of the Elect unto them, but unto their Surety. Thats how God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, not counting their trespasses against them.
2 Cor 5:19
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.