No one is righteous = No one can believe???

[Luke2427]

I give up.

Luke, I read the first three lines of your post and I hit the wall. I can't do it anymore bro. I love you but I can't spend any more time explaining the same thing to you over and over. This is not near as difficult as you are attempting to make it. Study what we believe from good reputable scholars and when you can restate, in your own words, what we believe on this subject then I'll reengage, but I can't get on another merry-go-round with you right now.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but there is only so much a person can handle... I wish you well!

Can I tell you what I think? Because I am going to here.

I think you know you can't answer those questions clearly without revealing yourself to the "nameless" crowd.

You know that they will look down on you if they find out what you really believe on these things.

There is no merry go round here. First of all this is the first time we have really discussed this particular aspect of this subject. So that is enough to make your "merry go round" excuse clearly bogus.

Secondly, we have only been discussing those questions about three posts. So it's not true Skan.

You can't answer the questions. You know you are done. Stick a fork in Skan- he's done.

And, BTW, I don't MEAN to be disrespectful either... :wavey::thumbs::love2:

 

[Skandelon]

Study what we believe from good reputable scholars and when you can restate, in your own words, what we believe on this subject then I'll reengage, until then I'm not getting on another merry-go-round with you.

 

[Luke2427]

Study what we believe from good reputable scholars and when you can restate, in your own words, what we believe on this subject then I'll reengage, until then I'm not getting on another merry-go-round with you.

And yet you are still posting.:love2:

You cannot answer the questions.

I know what Arminianismis AT LEAST as well as you.:wavey:

I attended a truly Arminian college, etc, etc, etc...

You just can't answer the questions.:love2:

 

[Skandelon]

I know what Arminianismis AT LEAST as well as you.:wavey:

Study what we believe from good reputable scholars and when you can restate, in your own words, what we believe on this subject then I'll reengage, until then I'm not getting on another merry-go-round with you.

 

[Luke2427]

Study what we believe from good reputable scholars and when you can restate, in your own words, what we believe on this subject then I'll reengage, until then I'm not getting on another merry-go-round with you.

:love2:Round and round she goes...

Is not reposting this the very ESSENCE of merry go rounding???:wavey:

 

[quantumfaith]

Skandelon,

Dont believe the hooey that anyone will look down on you for anything. If having a different spirit, heart, attitude, theology (different from Luke) makes me "nameless"....count me in. Proud to be in that company and crowd.

 

[Luke2427]

Skandelon,

Dont believe the hooey that anyone will look down on you for anything. If having a different spirit, heart, attitude, theology (different from Luke) makes me "nameless"....count me in. Proud to be in that company and crowd.

But he's not nameless.

He actually HAS a theology.

It is consistent. It is systematized. It is reputable.

It is for that very reason that he must abandon this conversation now.

Because he is alone. He knows if he answers the questions in the post he is avoiding that he will isolate himself from the only possible compadres he can have on baptist board- the nameless guys.

And I am offended at the "heart" comment.

I expect an apology.

 

[quantumfaith]

But he's not nameless.

He actually HAS a theology.

It is consistent. It is systematized. It is reputable.

It is for that very reason that he must abandon this conversation now.

Because he is alone. He knows if he answers the questions in the post he is avoiding that he will isolate himself from the only possible compadres he can have on baptist board- the nameless guys.

And I am offended at the "heart" comment.

I expect an apology.

:sleep::sleep::sleep:

 

[Luke2427]

sleepy faces

I find those snoring faces to be demeaning and insulting.:tear:

Please turn in your high horse whereby you rebuke people for being rude at the next station. You are now disqualified from mounting him any more.:love2: :wavey: :thumbs:

 

[Skandelon]

But he's not nameless.

He actually HAS a theology.

It is consistent. It is systematized. It is reputable.

Glad you feel that way, and since you know it as well as I do you shouldn't have any problem simply restating, in your own words, what we believe regarding this subject. I'll even let you copy and paste it from a scholar of your choosing, like you did with the Edwards quote.

It is for that very reason that he must abandon this conversation now.

Requiring one's opponent to represent his understanding of what has already been argued is not abandonment, it is good communication. I refuse to answer questions that have been sufficiently answered again and again. It is now your turn, since (by your own testimony) you understand my "systematize, consistent, and reputable" theology as well as I do, you should know the answers to the questions you posed.

What are they? Why do I believe God has not failed? Do I believe God wants to save everyone? You tell me since you already know.

 

[Luke2427]

Glad you feel that way, and since you know it as well as I do you shouldn't have any problem simply restating, in your own words, what we believe regarding this subject. I'll even let you copy and paste it from a scholar of your choosing, like you did with the Edwards quote.

No, skan. you're in the hot seat, not me. It would be silly for me to trade places with you.

Answer the questions. That was the last challenge. You don't get to skip it and make one of your own.

 

[Skandelon]

No, skan. you're in the hot seat, not me. It would be silly for me to trade places with you.

Answer the questions. That was the last challenge. You don't get to skip it and make one of your own.

You can't do it, can you? You have no idea how an Arminian would explain his desire for all to be saved, do you?

There are COUNTLESS posts from me answering that question. Just do a search. Anyone here who has read any threads of mine knows that, so now its your turn. What do you think we believe?

When you can restate it, then I'll reengage. Otherwise, you are admitting that you don't know as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Luke2427]

You can't do it, can you? You have no idea how an Arminian would explain his desire for all to be saved, do you?

This is about your inability to answer those questions.

I am not going to let you get by with deflecting from that plain fact.

There are COUNTLESS posts from me answering that question.

NOPE.

Just do a search. Anyone here who has read any threads of mine knows that, so now its your turn. What do you think we believe?

No one has seen you answer THOSE questions. I'll repost them so folks can see for themselves.

 

[Luke2427]

Here they are. These are the questions skandelon cannot answer.

What he knows he cannot do is admit that he believes that God NEVER intended for MANY people to go to heaven- that God never had any purpose to ever save everybody- that God purposed that many would go to hell before he made them- before, in fact he made the universe.

He is stuck because on the one hand he wants to claim that he believes that God NEVER fails at accomplishing ANY of his purposes.

But on the other hand he doesn't want to say that God INTENDED, PURPOSED that MANY go to hell.

So he is deflecting.

He tries to get you to think he is answering these by saying, "God did not purpose to effectually cause people to believe" but all thinking people can see that this does not answer these simple questions.

No. You are not clarifying. Be very clear here.

Does God want to save everybody or not.

Don't continue to deflect.

Is it true or false that God, before he built the universe, INTENDED for many to perish?

True or false, Skan. Just answer it without deflection- without introducing terminology that muddies the water like "God did not purpose to effectually make everyone believe"

That is another issue.

This is the issue here.

Did God intend to save everybody before he built the universe?
Did God intend for many to perish in his original design?



But he does not want to save those who do not, right?

He always intended for those people to perish before he made the world, right?

He never had any purpose to save those people who he knew would not believe, correct?

He always intended for those people to perish, right?



Then he is not TRYING to bring everyone to faith, right?



So you DON'T believe in substitutionary atonement!!

You do NOT believe he died in the sinner's place!



Then enlighten me as to what you think he designed in this universe to bring him glory.

How does the destruction of the impenitent bring God glory in your mindset?



Yea, but since I've corrected you I know you'll abandon using that term.

We have as many people in heaven as you do. You do not have one more. If we only have a few- so do you. Sorry.



Yea, because you deny God his Sovereignty in the choices of men.

And you have a freedom that is philosophically untenable.



Uh... yea, I do:



The NUMBER ONE definition for freely is EXACTLY how I mean it.



See. You are addicted to snottiness. This statement is snotty.

If you don't want me to slam you and to be aggressive and if you want me to be kind in our exchanges- stop being snotty. I am not sanctified enough to be sweet to people who are being snotty.

You are not brilliant enough to justify such snottiness.



Well good. I hope you will.




And he DOES NOT get his way. That is why your analogy is impotent.



No, because he intended me to fail before he built the universe. He purposed it.

Now listen- I can't explain that. I never will be able to explain it- probably not even in eternity.

Somehow I am truly responsible for my failure and rightly accountable for it. God is not pleased with me for my failure. He is in fact displeased with me. But at the same time, I DON'T know HOW they work together, but the Bible teaches them both (which is why I am a compatabalist), God is bringing his will to pass- that very will he forever in eternity past had- that very thing he has ALWAYS intended to happen.

 

[quantumfaith]

Here they are. These are the questions skandelon cannot answer.

What he knows he cannot do is admit that he believes that God NEVER intended for MANY people to go to heaven- that God never had any purpose to ever save everybody- that God purposed that many would go to hell before he made them- before, in fact he made the universe.

He is stuck because on the one hand he wants to claim that he believes that God NEVER fails at accomplishing ANY of his purposes.

But on the other hand he doesn't want to say that God INTENDED, PURPOSED that MANY go to hell.

So he is deflecting.

He tries to get you to think he is answering these by saying, "God did not purpose to effectually cause people to believe" but all thinking people can see that this does not answer these simple questions.

And you Luke know how many people God intended to enjoy eternity in His presence? Yes, I do believe that God would LOVE multitudes to know him in saving way.... will every person do so....I do not believe so. Many (how many, I have no idea) will reject him and His offer of salvation offered to all of mankind.

 

[Skandelon]

This is about your inability to answer those questions.

Then why could any objective observer do a simple search and find the numerous posts where I provide answers to these question? This is not an opinion, it is a verifiable fact, Luke.

Now, you have admitted that I hold to a reputable systematized theology that you know at least as well as I do. So, prove it.

Answer the questions so I know you understand our view. Why do Arminians reject the concept that God has failed when someone refuses to believe?

When you can answer that you will prove yourself to having been listening to all the answers I already gave. Until then it is pointless to continue a discussion with you on this subject.

 

[Skandelon]

Here they are. These are the questions skandelon cannot answer.

1. I've already provided answers to most if not all those questions, but because you either can't understand them or refuse to listen you keep asking the same thing over and over.

2. If you know Arminianism as well if not better than I do, which by your own testimony is a reputable, established, systematized theology; then why do you need me to provide the answer? Why don't you tell us what you think Arminians believe and then tell us why we are wrong?

 

[Luke2427]

1. I've already provided answers to most if not all those questions, but because you either can't understand them or refuse to listen you keep asking the same thing over and over.

2. If you know Arminianism as well if not better than I do, which by your own testimony is a reputable, established, systematized theology; then why do you need me to provide the answer? Why don't you tell us what you think Arminians believe and then tell us why we are wrong?

Show us all where you clearly answered these questions with anything other than the following phrase which does NOT answer them: "God did not purpose to effectually cause all men to believe and be saved."

That does not even ADDRESS the questions, Skan. It is simply a deflection.

 

[Skandelon]

Show us all where you clearly answered these questions with anything other than the following phrase which does NOT answer them: "God did not purpose to effectually cause all men to believe and be saved."

I thought you knew Arminianism as well if not better than I do and you don't know the answer even with my explanations to help you? That is only revealing what you really don't know Luke.

All you have to do is use your vast knowledge of Arminianism and answer the question yourself. You don't need my help...do you?

 

[Skandelon]

Let me help you out by answering a question about Calvinism:

Question: Do most Calvinism believe evangelism is necessary?
Calvinistic Answer: Yes, because those are the means God has chosen.

Now, your turn:

Question: Do Arminians believe God desires to save every person. And if so do they believe God has failed when someone is not saved?

Arminian Answer: _______________________________