No One on this Board Supports Abortion

[JustChristian]

That's funny; the Catholics were arguing to make it illegal, simply because of the number of embryos that were being discarded due to the success rate percentages.

Murdering embros is funny? Catholics were arguing to make it illegal, simply because of the number of embryos that were being discarded due to the success rate percentages. What do you mean by "funny." These embryos are murdered in the same way as aborted fetuses. Funny?

 

[LadyEagle]

Murdering embros is funny? Catholics were arguing to make it illegal, simply because of the number of embryos that were being discarded due to the success rate percentages. What do you mean by "funny." These embryos are murdered in the same way as aborted fetuses. Funny?

I doubt he meant funny as in ha ha. Some people use the term "funny" in lieu of using the word "strange" or "odd." Methinks you are too critical of his post and are reading more into it than what he meant. And that's not funny either. I thought this thread was supposed to be about abortion and not stem cell research. So please keep on topic.

And BTW, the topic title really isn't true judging from some of the posts I've read here, it appears some people here do support legalized abortion rather than back alley jobs.

And for the record, a D&C is sometimes used for abortion, but not all D&Cs are done to abort a fetus. D&Cs are sometimes done for cycle irregularities.

LE

 

[Don]

Murdering embros is funny? Catholics were arguing to make it illegal, simply because of the number of embryos that were being discarded due to the success rate percentages. What do you mean by "funny." These embryos are murdered in the same way as aborted fetuses. Funny?

Funny that you should ask something like "why shouldn't we make it illegal?" when people were already trying to make it illegal.

You've been trying to make a point, but it's falling flat.

 

[OldRegular]

We should then make all murder legal so long as it is done in a sterile setting and supervised by a doctor. In fact we should be able to hire a doctor to commit the murder for us.

It will be here sooner than you think. Doctors in the Netherlands are already performing involuntary euthanasia. When all the "baby boomers", the group that tolerated 50 million abortions, retire there will only be two people paying Social Security tax for each retiree instead of three as is the case currently. The reason, one in three pregnancies have been terminated by abortion since 1973.

 

[annsni]

Do all those who outright fight against abortion also fight against stemcell research which had saved many a life, including those good people who so vehemently opposed all abortions?

As already has been pointed out, embryonic stem cells are actually not very useful for practical purposes. Adult stem cells hold much more promise.

Do you also fight against all D&C's which includes the abortion of a fetus in the beginning stages? This is almost a routine surgical procedure for women.

I have had 7 D&Cs. 5 of them had nothing to do with a pregnancy but excessive bleeding due to Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome. With all of them, I would have died had a D&C not been performed. With my last one, my hemoglobin count was under 5. With the other 2 D&Cs, pregnancy was involved. In the first I had already lost the baby fully but was still bleeding so had the D&C. In the second one, the baby's heart stopped beating and after 3 ultrasounds over 10 days, we were sure the baby was lost but my body was not miscarrying naturally. Because of my history with bleeding, the doctor and I chose to do a D&C so they could hopefully prevent the bleeding and to find out why I lost this child.

So the idea that D&Cs involve abortion is incorrect. D&C IS a form of abortion but it is also a method to remove the endometrium when there is excessive bleeding, fibroids or other uterine issues where cutting out the lining would be beneficial.

How many of you has provided a home and financial assistance for a young girl in peril? In the old days, if a girl got pregnant, she was hid in the back bedroom as a disgrace to the family.

We have.

How many young girls have you counselled, and by this I mean non-judgemental counselling?

Many

How many of you also bellyached about welfare benefits for the girl who has her child and trys to raise it?

Never and I have helped young moms with supplies. I also have a new mom's group at church where I have 2 unwed mothers who chose life for their children. They need just as much support as married moms and more. So I am there for them when they need it.


Oh - and I was the result of an unexpected, unwanted pregnancy. My mother was a Baptist minister's daughter who had an affair with a married man - her boss. This was in 1965. She chose life and I thank her forever for that.

 

[annsni]

Do you speak out against "test tube babies." This procedure allows many couples who cannot have children to have a child. However, it leaves behind a large number of frozen embryos most of which will be discarded (murdered).

I have struggled with infertility even though I have 4 children.

With my first two, just a basic fertility drug (clomid) was enough for me to get pregnant.

With the next pregnancy, I had to resort to injectable drugs. I miscarried this baby.

The fourth pregnancy was from a combination of medications. I miscarried this baby also.

Our next choice was to do either artificial insemination or in-vitro. Neither one was acceptable to us. Either we would conceive our child in the "natural" way or else we'd adopt. I did not want to even think of creating babies that might not make it.

For me, the logical conclusion of understanding fertility and life, IVF is wrong.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Buddy, you make a statement, then give three paragraphs of a lame scapegoat arguement giving reason for pro choice.

I find it strange that you would lecture others for logic errors yet not comprehend what I wrote.

I'm against abortion. Given that, if we really want to minimize the number of abortions in our nation, as churches and individuals, we need to do things that are truly pro-life. Through what you describe as "three paragraphs of lame scapegoat arguement(sic)" I was attempting to illustrate the real issues that young women face. Unless you deny that rape ever occurs (a ludicrous argument by any standard), then everyone needs to consider the real pressures that many so-called "pro-life" churches put on women to actually abort their children through stigmas and self-righteous and unchristian moralism.

If you will pay attention to what I actually said, you will see that I have not advocated a "pro-choice" argument. I am pressing for a truly consistent pro-life position, not just anti-abortion.

Talk about double-minded! :BangHead:

Talk about missing the point!

 

[JustChristian]

Funny that you should ask something like "why shouldn't we make it illegal?" when people were already trying to make it illegal.

You've been trying to make a point, but it's falling flat.

I'm not aware that there is any effort to make In Vietro fertilization illegal. Who's leading the effort? Oh, I guess that's the Catholic effort you referred to.

 

[Baptist Believer]

So what is your point?

The point is that being truly pro-life is not a political position, it is a lifestyle committed to serving and supporting those who have pregnancies yet are unable or initially unwilling to raise a child. It requires the church to be a place of grace and acceptance to unwed mothers or women who are in crisis, and requires sacrificial giving to ensure that children who are not aborted are taken care of and placed with loving stable families.

I am pro life.

I hope you are. I am too.

Those who support the democrat party, the party of death, are pro abortion whether they admit it or not.

Neither party has a monopoly on the "pro-life" position. Certainly Republicans generally give lip-service to being opposed to abortion, but many times they do nothing for (and sometimes actually oppose) government programs and disbursements designed to assist struggling families and unwed mothers. That's not pro-life.

On the other hand, Democrats often support just terminating pregnancies before the children are born so they don't have to deal with the messy realities of families in crisis. And that's definitely not pro-life.

If we are going to deal with the issue as Christians, we have to forget arm-chair morality and get involved in people's lives. We need to reject the overly simplistic way the abortion war has been framed and consider how Jesus would want us to handle the situation. We need to deal with people in their brokenness and need, and work for healing of families and the welfare of children, both born and unborn. Churches need to organize finances and ministries to aid women in need so that they don't have to rely on government programs to get through their circumstances. Christians need to get past their self-righteous desire to condemn and instead work toward redemption.

That's my point.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I have helped young moms with supplies. I also have a new mom's group at church where I have 2 unwed mothers who chose life for their children. They need just as much support as married moms and more. So I am there for them when they need it.

May God richly bless you and your ministry!

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I am referring to someone who is truly pro-life. Not everyone can actively serve like you do with your gifts, but everyone can find someone like you to support in prayer, with finances (so you don't have to bear the burden alone), and will loving support for you and the young women.

 

[Don]

I'm not aware that there is any effort to make In Vietro fertilization illegal. Who's leading the effort? Oh, I guess that's the Catholic effort you referred to.

It's spelled "in vitro"; if you intend to use it as some point in your effort to justify your support of a president who supports abortion, you might as well spell it correctly.

Your original post was that no one on this board supports abortion; our argument states that your position is false. If it were true, you wouldn't have so vehemently supported a candidate who was so obviously pro-abortion.

Arguments about stem cell research and in vitro fertilization are not supporting your position. They are an appeal to emotion that falls flat in the face of the facts.

You state that the present administration did nothing to prevent abortion; it's been shown several times that they made some efforts, however small and/or ineffective they might be. You, on the other hand, have voted for and helped elect a president who will undo those efforts, and forward the cause of the pro-abortion crowd.

All your arguments on this subject are overshadowed by who you voted for. Don't hold it against us that we happen to believe who you supported represents what you believe, or are happy living with.

 

[JustChristian]

I doubt he meant funny as in ha ha. Some people use the term "funny" in lieu of using the word "strange" or "odd." Methinks you are too critical of his post and are reading more into it than what he meant. And that's not funny either. I thought this thread was supposed to be about abortion and not stem cell research. So please keep on topic.

And BTW, the topic title really isn't true judging from some of the posts I've read here, it appears some people here do support legalized abortion rather than back alley jobs.

And for the record, a D&C is sometimes used for abortion, but not all D&Cs are done to abort a fetus. D&Cs are sometimes done for cycle irregularities.

LE

It's a topic for discussion. No one has posted on this topic saying that.

 

[Don]

It's a topic for discussion. No one has posted on this topic saying that.

Actually, Jim did; thus, all the recent posts about D&C's.

 

[donnA]

All your arguments on this subject are overshadowed by who you voted for. Don't hold it against us that we happen to believe who you supported represents what you believe, or are happy living with.

a person can say they believe anything, but what they do reveals what they really believe.

 

[JustChristian]

a person can say they believe anything, but what they do reveals what they really believe.

This topic is like Lucy and the football in Charley Brown. Every election the Republicans tee up the abortion football for the gullible evangelical Christians to go for. Then every time they get in office they pull it away and actually do very little. Besides, defeating Roe versus Wade is only part of a comprehensive program to address the harm that abortion has done in the United States. (See my earlier post.) I've never heard the Republicans come up with a comprehensive solution.

My belief is that closely allying the Christian church with a political party, especially one which hasn't done much to achieve its objectives, has been very divisive and has done perhaps irreparable damage to the evangelistic outreach of the Church in Americe.

By the way, a D&C procedure is mainly used after miscarriages not for abortion. It's used after about 50% of miscarriages which are the most common cause of the loss of a fetus. It is rarely used for ablution. Understand the facts before making accusations.

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D&C procedure after a Miscarriage
Unfortunately, miscarriage is the most common type of pregnancy loss, according to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG). Studies reveal that anywhere from 10-25% of all clinically recognized pregnancies will end in miscarriage, and most miscarriages occur during the first 13 weeks of pregnancy.

Pregnancy can be such an exciting time, but with the great number of recognized miscarriages that occur, it is beneficial to be informed on miscarriage in the unfortunate event that you find yourself or someone you know faced with one.
The main goal of treatment during or after a miscarriage is to prevent hemorrhaging and/or infection. The earlier you are in the pregnancy, the more likely that your body will expel all the fetal tissue by itself and will not require further medical procedures. If the body does not expel all the tissue, the most common procedure performed to stop bleeding and prevent infection is a D&C.

What is a D&C Procedure?
D&C, also known as dilation and curettage, is a surgical procedure often performed after a first trimester miscarriage. Dilation means to open up the cervix; curettage means to remove the contents of the uterus. Curettage may be performed by scraping the uterine wall with a curette instrument or by a suction curettage (also called vacuum aspiration), using a vacuum-type instrument.

Is a D&C necessary after a miscarriage?
About 50% of women who miscarry do not undergo a D&C procedure. Women can safely miscarry on their own, with few problems in pregnancies that end before 10 weeks. After 10 weeks, the miscarriage is more likely to be incomplete, requiring a D&C procedure to be performed. Choosing whether to miscarry naturally (called expectant management) or to have a D&C procedure is often a personal choice, best decided after talking with your health care provider.

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Dilation and sharp curettage (D&C) for abortion
Dilation and curettage (D&C) uses a sharp instrument to remove tissue from inside the uterus. It is a rarely performed type of surgical abortion done in the first 12 weeks (first trimester) of a pregnancy. D&C has an increased risk of bleeding and injury to the uterus compared with the usual procedure that uses suction to clear the uterus (manual or machine vacuum aspiration).1

 

[annsni]

This topic is like Lucy and the football in Charley Brown. Every election the Republicans tee up the abortion football for the gullible evangelical Christians to go for. Then every time they get in office they pull it away and actually do very little. Besides, defeating Roe versus Wade is only part of a comprehensive program to address the harm that abortion has done in the United States. (See my earlier post.) I've never heard the Republicans come up with a comprehensive solution.

My belief is that closely allying the Christian church with a political party, especially one which hasn't done much to achieve its objectives, has been very divisive and has done perhaps irreparable damage to the evangelistic outreach of the Church in Americe.

Well, then our choice is a party that says they'll do something but does little or a party that advances abortion. I'd rather we not move forward with abortion but not move at all. However, we've seen that the Republican party HAS done work against abortion as has been shown here in this thread.

 

[Revmitchell]

This topic is like Lucy and the football in Charley Brown. Every election the Republicans tee up the abortion football for the gullible evangelical Christians to go for. Then every time they get in office they pull it away and actually do very little. Besides, defeating Roe versus Wade is only part of a comprehensive program to address the harm that abortion has done in the United States. (See my earlier post.) I've never heard the Republicans come up with a comprehensive solution.

You can repeat this tll doomsday but in the end it is only a weak attempt to defend voting for a pro-death candidate.

 

[JustChristian]

Well, then our choice is a party that says they'll do something but does little or a party that advances abortion. I'd rather we not move forward with abortion but not move at all. However, we've seen that the Republican party HAS done work against abortion as has been shown here in this thread.

Abortion didn't advance during Clinton's two terms. In fact it went DOWN MORE RAPIDLY than it did under Bush. I think the major reason was the economy.

 

[Don]

Abortion didn't advance during Clinton's two terms. In fact it went DOWN MORE RAPIDLY than it did under Bush. I think the major reason was the economy.

If you're talking about the Stassen report - those numbers are in dispute. Stassen used an average over the entire decade of 1990-2000 -- which included the first Bush presidency.

 

[Reformer]

Do all those who outright fight against abortion also fight against stemcell research which had saved many a life, including those good people who so vehemently opposed all abortions?

Just have to point out no one is opposed to stem cell research, That said Most people opposed to abortion are opposed to EMBRONIC stem cell reasearch.

Stem Cell research and embryonic stem cell research are totally different things

I will also note while stem cell research has proved many positive results, embryonic stem cell research has had NO success, NONE. Nobody has ever been saved, healed, made better or anything else by embryonic stem cell research.

And buy the way if have to kill a baby, even in a embryonic state, for me to get "healed" then I shall go meet my Savior face to face at last.

This is one of the many reasons I could not support McCain, He supported Embryonic Stem cell research. I just couldn't push it under the rug like most could.

Reformer