No One on this Board Supports Abortion

[Palatka51]

I have had 7 D&Cs. 5 of them had nothing to do with a pregnancy but excessive bleeding due to Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome. With all of them, I would have died had a D&C not been performed. With my last one, my hemoglobin count was under 5. With the other 2 D&Cs, pregnancy was involved. In the first I had already lost the baby fully but was still bleeding so had the D&C. In the second one, the baby's heart stopped beating and after 3 ultrasounds over 10 days, we were sure the baby was lost but my body was not miscarrying naturally. Because of my history with bleeding, the doctor and I chose to do a D&C so they could hopefully prevent the bleeding and to find out why I lost this child.

So the idea that D&Cs involve abortion is incorrect. D&C IS a form of abortion but it is also a method to remove the endometrium when there is excessive bleeding, fibroids or other uterine issues where cutting out the lining would be beneficial

My wife had two miscarriages and with that 2 D&Cs. Two family members that are in the arms of my Heavenly Father, IMHO. My brother was still born. His birth (though he was dead) had a profound witness to me. As an 8 year old that was asking questions about Heaven and eternal life sense I was 5. His death was what reached my soul for Christ. I will always know that all life, born or not will have a purpose in God's plan for it, even if the mother has none. :tear:

Good Post Annsni

Mel

 

[JustChristian]

If you're talking about the Stassen report - those numbers are in dispute. Stassen used an average over the entire decade of 1990-2000 -- which included the first Bush presidency.

I'd have to check the source. What data do you have?

 

[Dragoon68]

... Abortion if necessary, but not necessarily abortion. ...Jim

Abortion is never necessary! To make a choice to amputate your leg because you might otherwise die from gangrene is one thing. It is your body and your choice - more or less - but even so it belongs first to God. To make a choice to kill your baby because you might die carrying it, because it is the product of an illicit or unwilling intercourse, or perhaps just because you might be inconvenienced or embarrassed by it is another thing all together. It is not your body and not your choice. It is the responsibility of every mother to care from that which is conceived in her - entrusted to her by God - to the best of her ability. The unborn child belongs first to God - not to the women who carries it! Abortion should be 100% illegal because our foundation of laws should be God's laws. The fact that people will still seek to circumvent the law does not justify removing the law. The decision and consequences to follow it or not rest with the individual. Society must uphold the standard despite the individual otherwise the foundation of law is as corrupt as the person who does not follow it.

 

[annsni]

Abortion is never necessary! To make a choice to amputate your leg because you might otherwise die from gangrene is one thing. It is your body and your choice - more or less - but even so it belongs first to God. To make a choice to kill your baby because you might die carrying it, because it is the product of an illicit or unwilling intercourse, or perhaps just because you might be inconvenienced or embarrassed by it is another thing all together. It is not your body and not your choice. It is the responsibility of every mother to care from that which is conceived in her - entrusted to her by God - to the best of her ability. The unborn child belongs first to God - not to the women who carries it! Abortion should be 100% illegal because our foundation of laws should be God's laws. The fact that people will still seek to circumvent the law does not justify removing the law. The decision and consequences to follow it or not rest with the individual. Society must uphold the standard despite the individual.

I 99.9% agree with you because there ARE legitimate cases of where it's the life of the mother (and in her losing her life, the child will lose theirs) or the life of the child. Ectopic pregnancies are one of these such cases. There has only been one reported case of a child surviving an ectopic pregnancy to go on to term yet in the vast majority of cases, the mother will die if the child is not removed.

There are other cases such as enclampsia where the mother will die unless the pregnancy is ended but in a large portion of these cases, the child is of a gestational age to have a chance at making it. It may be a long expensive fight but a child of 26 weeks has a chance to make it and it's better than losing both mom and babe. As a matter of fact, I just pulled together all of my little baby hats and mittens that we will no longer use for a friend who's son was born 18 months ago at 1 lb. 5 oz. and 27 weeks. He's just started walking and is doing beautifully - although he cost the insurance company close to two million dollars at this point. But if a woman is this far along and facing certain death with the continuation of the pregnancy, then it's best to take the child and give them a chance. This is not abortion - but premature birth because you're giving the child a chance.

 

[Baptist Believer]

... there ARE legitimate cases of where it's the life of the mother (and in her losing her life, the child will lose theirs) or the life of the child. Ectopic pregnancies are one of these such cases. There has only been one reported case of a child surviving an ectopic pregnancy to go on to term yet in the vast majority of cases, the mother will die if the child is not removed.

Absolutely.

We only undermine our pro-life position if we ignore the life of the mother. Being pro-life is not only for unborn children, but also for the innocent "born" people of any age. We should not commit euthanasia on children, the elderly, or condemn women to death for an ectopic pregnancy. The embryos in ectopic pregnancies are not going to survive anyway, at least with today's technology. Why lose two lives?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Absolutely.

We only undermine our pro-life position if we ignore the life of the mother. Being pro-life is not only for unborn children, but also for the innocent "born" people of any age. We should not commit euthanasia on children, the elderly, or condemn women to death for an ectopic pregnancy. The embryos in ectopic pregnancies are not going to survive anyway, at least with today's technology. Why lose two lives?

And stop capital punishment. Capital punishment is anti-life.

 

[annsni]

And stop capital punishment. Capital punishment is anti-life.

Yes, capital punishment is anti-life but it's something that God instituted so there must be something right about it.

 

[Jim1999]

God did not institute capital punishment by any imperfect nation who has hanged, electrocuted or needled so many innocent people over the years.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Palatka51]

God did not institute capital punishment by any imperfect nation who has hanged, electrocuted or needled so many innocent people over the years.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim, you are not in a position to ridicule or judge this nation. Besides I'd almost wager that every nation has had a dark history, Canada included.

 

[Baptist Believer]

And stop capital punishment. Capital punishment is anti-life.

Capital punishment that is administered through a careful series of checks and balances designed to eliminate the possibility of executing innocent people, can be pro-life. It upholds the sanctity of innocent life by eliminating persons in our society who take the lives of innocent people. It sends a very strong pro-life message to the public (and potential murderers) that our criminal justice system respects life (at least the lives of those who are already born).

I took a conceal-carry class on Saturday so I can legally carry a concealed handgun in the state of Texas (as well as 28 other cooperating states). When my license is approved, I will carry a firearm and ammunition designed to end life. Do I want to kill anyone? Nope. I don't even enjoy hunting. But I will use my handgun in order to preserve the lives of innocents, including my own life, if I am a near a situation where words and reason are ineffective at stopping another person from murdering others. Fundamentally, I will carry a gun for pro-life reasons.

On September 15, 1999, an unstable man walked into Wedgwood Baptist Church in Fort Worth (about two miles from my home) and murdered seven people and wounded seven others (some of whom are permanently disable). I know the pastor of that church and knew a number of people in the congregation and several from our church who were at the youth event. And I was part of the local media at that time and conducted several print interviews with people who were there and the families of those who were murdered. I also walked through the hallway, foyer and sanctuary areas where the murders took place and realized that one person with a handgun could have prevented most of those deaths/injuries... unfortunately the bad guy always gets the first move.

Being pro-life is not holding an anti-abortion political position or opposing capital punishment, but it's taking a stand to nurture, support and defend the lives of innocents and those who cannot take care of themselves. I certainly hold an anti-abortion political position, but that's just not enough. I also understand the concerns of those who oppose capital punishment on the basis of "fairness" (although I disagree with them). But we must think more comprehensively about what it means to be pro-life.

 

[Don]

I'd have to check the source. What data do you have?

http://www.lifenews.com/nat886.html

http://malkin-watch.blogspot.com/2005/01/professor-glen-stassen-interview.html

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_/ai_n14727053 ("Stassen, however, has previously admitted mistakenly reporting increases in the 2002 abortion rates in two states that actually showed decreases.")

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5609a1.htm#fig3 (indicates a gradual decrease since early 1990's, including during Bush2's presidency); 2004 seems to be the most recent reporting document)

I can only find individual state records for abortions after 2004. In 2006, Alabama showed a decrease in the number of state residents obtaining an abortion, while the number of abortions performed in the state increased slightly. Minnesota saw an increase in abortions in 2006; but rather than a correlation with the economy, there was also an opening of additional Planned Parenthood locations.

 

[OldRegular]

And stop capital punishment. Capital punishment is anti-life.

The pro murder of the unborn always drag capital punishment into the discussion. Capital punishment has nothing to do with killing the unborn though I dare say that most of those opposed to capital punishment [ just as PETA and tree huggers] are pro murder of the unborn or just born.

Capital punishment is for those who are guilty of certain crimes. Unborn children are perfectly innocent.

 

[OldRegular]

God did not institute capital punishment by any imperfect nation who has hanged, electrocuted or needled so many innocent people over the years.

Cheers,

Jim

How Many???

 

[OldRegular]

My belief is that closely allying the Christian church with a political party, especially one which hasn't done much to achieve its objectives, has been very divisive and has done perhaps irreparable damage to the evangelistic outreach of the Church in Americe.

Isn't it strange that prior to the Reagan Revolution no one complained about the same umbilical cord feeding the democrats and certain "liberal" denominations who burned draft cards, the flag, invaded government offices, etc. However, as soon as conservative believers start voicing their opinion we are told to shut up and go back into the wood work.

Let us just be blunt. There are people on this forum who support the murder of the unborn both by WORD and by DEED. To contend otherwise is not truthful.

 

[Palatka51]

God did not institute capital punishment by any imperfect nation who has hanged, electrocuted or needled so many innocent people over the years.

Cheers,

Jim

Was Rome a perfect nation? They hung the most innocent person that ever lived on a cross. Yet Paul says this to the people at Rome;

Romans 13
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

Imperfect men and ungodly men have been at the heads of many a kingdom and until Jesus comes and sets His throne on Earth that's just the way it is.

Until then we will have many more travesties of justice in all nations run by man.

 

[Crabtownboy]

How Many???

We will never know, dead men and women cannot talk.

The pro murder of the unborn always drag capital punishment into the discussion. Capital punishment has nothing to do with killing the unborn though I dare say that most of those opposed to capital punishment [ just as PETA and tree huggers] are pro murder of the unborn or just born.

Capital punishment is for those who are guilty of certain crimes. Unborn children are perfectly innocent.

Of course capital punishment has nothing to do with abortion, that is a given. But you are probably right. Strangely most anti-abortion people believe in capital punishmenty. It is a contridiction that I find puzzling and un-Biblical.

I am anti abortion and anti-capital punishment. I can finding nothing in Christ's teachings that make me believe he approved or approves of capital punishment. Don't try to negate Christ's teachings by bringing in the OT. If you do that you open a huge can of worms. Christ teachings on how we are to treat others leaves no place for capital punishment.

Also, a few years ago I did some research on inmates on death row. I do not have links, in fact I did not research in on the Intenet ... but several references said that the best statistics say that up to 10% of all inmates on death row are innocent of the crime that put them there. That alone should be enough to stop capital punishment.

With the advent of DNA testing we know know, because prisoners have been released and set free, that innocent people are on death row.

Read John Grishim's "The Innocent Man." It is a non-fiction, true story book of an innocent man sent to death row. If you believe that in America you are innocent until proven guilty, read this book or watch the following link on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jz9xMpu0I8

 

[JustChristian]

http://www.lifenews.com/nat886.html

http://malkin-watch.blogspot.com/2005/01/professor-glen-stassen-interview.html

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_/ai_n14727053 ("Stassen, however, has previously admitted mistakenly reporting increases in the 2002 abortion rates in two states that actually showed decreases.")

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5609a1.htm#fig3 (indicates a gradual decrease since early 1990's, including during Bush2's presidency); 2004 seems to be the most recent reporting document)

I can only find individual state records for abortions after 2004. In 2006, Alabama showed a decrease in the number of state residents obtaining an abortion, while the number of abortions performed in the state increased slightly. Minnesota saw an increase in abortions in 2006; but rather than a correlation with the economy, there was also an opening of additional Planned Parenthood locations.

I found this chart on the Center for Disease Control web site for 2004 and before:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5609a1.htm#fig1

Yours from the CDC breaks down the numbers by age group and makes it impossible to see any trend. This one isn't that great either but but show an increased drop in abortions during the Clinton administration as compared to the Bush administration. Since I believe that this is probably due to the economy (or maybe better sex education) I think this would be more pronounced 2004-2008. I'm going to plot the numbers given in the chart to see if we can get a better idea of what's going on.

 

[Dragoon68]

God did not institute capital punishment by any imperfect nation who has hanged, electrocuted or needled so many innocent people over the years.

Cheers,

Jim

Baloney! We have one of the most "forgiving" systems of justice in the world. Many more who deserve the death penalty escape it and rest wait years and years for justice to be served. We often treat criminals better than victims. Government's duty is to provide a system of swift and fair justice so that we are not tempted to take the matters into our own hands. When they don't do that they fail on all counts.

 

[Dragoon68]

Absolutely.

We only undermine our pro-life position if we ignore the life of the mother. Being pro-life is not only for unborn children, but also for the innocent "born" people of any age. We should not commit euthanasia on children, the elderly, or condemn women to death for an ectopic pregnancy. The embryos in ectopic pregnancies are not going to survive anyway, at least with today's technology. Why lose two lives?

And so all the various excuses begin. The mother may on rare occasion die but, fortunately, today's medical care is so much better than this rarely happens. Even so it does not justify killing one to save the other.

 

[saturneptune]

Let us just be blunt. There are people on this forum who support the murder of the unborn both by WORD and by DEED. To contend otherwise is not truthful.

Do you ever have anything positive to say? There is a very strong case to be made for the fact the Republican apologists aid and abet the abortion cause. Pot, meet kettle.