No such thing as "free will"

[AustinC]

Let me straighten this out. No one said or suggested God does not have complete authority in the actions of His creation, human beings! The Calvinist falsely claims that is the argument being made. Total fabrication, total fiction, total falsehood once again by those seeking to derail biblical discussion. Humans exist with the purview allowed by God. If He hardens a person's heart, they are not able to put their trust in Christ. So simple a child could understand.

Therefore you do not use Philemon 1:14 to ever argue for free will...correct? That half a sentence has zero bearing on the philosophy of free will being biblical.

 

[Aaron]

Oh Love That Will Not Let Me Go

Praise God I'm not free to leave Him!

 

[Silverhair]

You have something in common with your Mormon relatives, and all cults, really.

Free will.

Extolling the good in man and detracting from the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, making Him into an image like unto man, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.

Reality is that you have more in common with her that I do. Your determinism is inline with the JW's, Mormons, Islam. Calvin’s God and Islam’s Allah are both bereft of unconditional love for everyone.

Arthur W. Pink {Calvinist} has written in contention to the notion that God loves everyone.
"When we say that God is sovereign in the exercise of His love, we mean that He loves whom he chooses. God does not love everybody"

Even your TULIP that you all support shows that your version of God does not love everyone contrary to what the bible tells us. God desires all to be saved 1Ti 2:3-4 but not under Calvinism.

The Gospel call in Calvinism is not a well meant call or sincere offer. Only those that are included in the Unconditional Election will partake of the Limited Atonement and will be drawn to God by His Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God. Your own theology precludes this, but you just do not want to acknowledge that fact.

Calvinist theology has made the good faith offer of salvation moot. If, according to Calvinism, you are not part of this select group then you are doomed form the start. God, according to Calvinism, is more glorified by unconditionally choosing to save some and damning others than He would be by determining all to accept salvation. Such claims make a shambles of both the claim that God is love and His character.

 

[Reformed1689]

Reality is that you have more in common with her that I do. Your determinism is inline with the JW's, Mormons, Islam. Calvin’s God and Islam’s Allah are both bereft of unconditional love for everyone.

Arthur W. Pink {Calvinist} has written in contention to the notion that God loves everyone.
"When we say that God is sovereign in the exercise of His love, we mean that He loves whom he chooses. God does not love everybody"

Even your TULIP that you all support shows that your version of God does not love everyone contrary to what the bible tells us. God desires all to be saved 1Ti 2:3-4 but not under Calvinism.

The Gospel call in Calvinism is not a well meant call or sincere offer. Only those that are included in the Unconditional Election will partake of the Limited Atonement and will be drawn to God by His Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God. Your own theology precludes this, but you just do not want to acknowledge that fact.

Calvinist theology has made the good faith offer of salvation moot. If, according to Calvinism, you are not part of this select group then you are doomed form the start. God, according to Calvinism, is more glorified by unconditionally choosing to save some and damning others than He would be by determining all to accept salvation. Such claims make a shambles of both the claim that God is love and His character.

So God has unconditional love for those in hell?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

ll

Martin I am not saying that the verses that I posted contradict what you posted. The bible does not do that. What I ma saying is that man has a real free will. Even what you write shows that you believe man has a free will. “They freely choose darkness because they prefer it.” But you miss the point that they could have chosen otherwise. When Rom 1:20 tells us we are without excuse then this also indicates that we have the ability to choose otherwise. If they could not choose otherwise then they do then they would have an excuse.


You say you believe and preach the verses I posted and you assure those who hear them will repent and trust in Christ and they will be saved. So your trusting in the Holy Spirit to convict them Joh 16.8-9 through the gospel message Rom 1.16. The people have to exercise their free will.


God does not ask men to behave in order to be saved, we can not earn salvation by our good deeds, but to believe. It is because of our faith in Christ Jesus that God saves the sinner.
1Ti 4:10 ...we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.[/QUOTE]
Please just read my post #17 through again. I don't see the point in trotting out the same arguments again and again and again We aren't going to agree so let's just leave it there. Have a great day!

 

[Silverhair]

So God has unconditional love for those in hell?

Usual silly comment.

 

[Reformed1689]

Usual silly comment.

It wasn't a comment, it was a question, which you avoided for some reason.

 

[Silverhair]

It wasn't a comment, it was a question, which you avoided for some reason.

Before they are in hell,YES. Do you not trust what the bible says? If God desires that all men be saved do you not think that He loves all men?

 

[Silverhair]

ll


Martin I am not saying that the verses that I posted contradict what you posted. The bible does not do that. What I ma saying is that man has a real free will. Even what you write shows that you believe man has a free will. “They freely choose darkness because they prefer it.” But you miss the point that they could have chosen otherwise. When Rom 1:20 tells us we are without excuse then this also indicates that we have the ability to choose otherwise. If they could not choose otherwise then they do then they would have an excuse.


You say you believe and preach the verses I posted and you assure those who hear them will repent and trust in Christ and they will be saved. So your trusting in the Holy Spirit to convict them Joh 16.8-9 through the gospel message Rom 1.16. The people have to exercise their free will.


God does not ask men to behave in order to be saved, we can not earn salvation by our good deeds, but to believe. It is because of our faith in Christ Jesus that God saves the sinner.
1Ti 4:10 ...we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Please just read my post #17 through again. I don't see the point in trotting out the same arguments again and again and again We aren't going to agree so let's just leave it there. Have a great day![/QUOTE]

Martin your the one that says you preach on the verses that I posted but you seem to deny what they say. When the bible indicates that man has a free will so as to choose salvation you deny this is possible. The only reason I can see that you do this is because your Calvinist theology requires it.

If you have to present your arguments again & again & again that should be telling you that your arguments are not that effective. You are arguing from your philosophical position and I am just presenting scripture. But like you say we are not going to agree so we will just have to leave it there. Bonne Journee.

 

[AustinC]

Please just read my post #17 through again. I don't see the point in trotting out the same arguments again and again and again We aren't going to agree so let's just leave it there. Have a great day!

Martin your the one that says you preach on the verses that I posted but you seem to deny what they say. When the bible indicates that man has a free will so as to choose salvation you deny this is possible. The only reason I can see that you do this is because your Calvinist theology requires it.

If you have to present your arguments again & again & again that should be telling you that your arguments are not that effective. You are arguing from your philosophical position and I am just presenting scripture. But like you say we are not going to agree so we will just have to leave it there. Bonne Journee.

It tells me you're hard headed and refuse to accept truth from God's word. I can't speak for what it tells Martin.

 

[Alcott]

No such thing as "free will"

I can't say I know of any lawyer who offers that service.

 

[Silverhair]

It tells me you're hard headed and refuse to accept truth from God's word. I can't speak for what it tells Martin.

Now I do not see why you would call me hard headed? I just present the text of scripture, which most of you Calvinists deny which would indicate that you are the hard headed ones. As have said before, Calvinists have to read into the text what they need to find so that it will fit your theology. You need to just trust what the bible says rather than what you think the bible says.

You will continue to trust your Calvinist philosophy and I will continue to trust the bible. By the way the truth that I do nor accept is your so called Calvinist truth which is really not truth at all.

 

[Van]

Therefore you do not use Philemon 1:14 to ever argue for free will...correct? That half a sentence has zero bearing on the philosophy of free will being biblical.

I may have presented that the term "free will" can be found in scripture, i.e. a free will offering, but I do not recall where I claimed humans do not operate within the purview God allows.

 

[Reformed1689]

Before they are in hell,YES. Do you not trust what the bible says? If God desires that all men be saved do you not think that He loves all men?

No, I do not believe he loves all individuals unconditionally with the same love nor does the Bible say that.

 

[Reformed1689]

As have said before, Calvinists have to read into the text what they need to find so that it will fit your theology. You need to just trust what the bible says rather than what you think the bible says.

No, we just do not read it out of context.

 

[Van]

What context or presupposition might be used to find that people are not constrained to operate within the purview God allows?
1) Those that claim God causes, predestines, whatsoever comes to pass. Thus they do not find God offering the choice of life or death to people. Rather He compels some to choose life and compels the rest to choose death.

2) Those that claim God did not harden individuals such that they would choose to reject the gospel, Romans 11.

 

[Silverhair]

No, we just do not read it out of context.

Context is not the friend of the calvinist.

 

[AustinC]

Context is not the friend of the calvinist.

On the contrary, context is not the friend of Silverhair. Very rarely do you allow context to determine your interpretation. Most often you ignore context and hone in on part of a sentence where you attempt to ignore all context. This has been your consistent pattern from the very beginning of posting at the BB.

The fact is, your above statement is a blatant falsehood, mainly because you are clueless about Reformed theology and simply throw out the word "calvinist" in complete ignorance. You use it like a swear word.

 

[AustinC]

I may have presented that the term "free will" can be found in scripture, i.e. a free will offering, but I do not recall where I claimed humans do not operate within the purview God allows.

Then on this verse and view we seem to agree.

 

[AustinC]

Now I do not see why you would call me hard headed? I just present the text of scripture, which most of you Calvinists deny which would indicate that you are the hard headed ones. As have said before, Calvinists have to read into the text what they need to find so that it will fit your theology. You need to just trust what the bible says rather than what you think the bible says.

You will continue to trust your Calvinist philosophy and I will continue to trust the bible. By the way the truth that I do nor accept is your so called Calvinist truth which is really not truth at all.

LOL, of course you don't see. Your first sentence proves my point.
You are dead set on your humanism, as you may be destined to hold, much to your judgment in glory.