DrJamesAch
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Don't you have a few planets to populate?
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Non-cals have the same problem
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Don't you have a few planets to populate?
saturneptune
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DrJamesAch
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No, I am fond of Earth. However, there are some openings on Uranus for you.
And I'm quite sure that planet would discard determinist feculence with magnanimous regularity
saturneptune
New Member
And I'm quite sure that planet would discard determinist feculence with magnanimous regularity
I never took Latin, but notice the ring around Uranus in the picture. That is a sure sign of an Arminian population.
Since you are so fond of parables, here is the meaning of the above statement. Free will theology does not follow a logical sequence of events as in Scripture, but goes in circles.
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DrJamesAch
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And I'm quite sure that planet would discard determinist feculence with magnanimous regularity
That's to ensure that whatever is discarded doesn't creep back into the planet defiling the population. Matthew 15:11-17
Yes...around Uranus _oh ha ha ha...that's rich:thumbs:
DrJamesAch
New Member
Indeed it is..what's any of this have to do with me? You really do reach with every post don't you! Very amusing..lol
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"You misunderstand the situation. You're visualizing that God is standing at the door of heaven, and men are thronging to get in the door, and God is saying to various ones, 'Yes, you may come, but not you, and you, but not you, etc.' The situation is hardly this. Rather, God stands at the door of heaven with His arms outstretched, inviting all to come. Yet all men without exception are running in the opposite direction towards hell as hard as they can go. So God, in election, graciously reaches out and stops this one, and that one, and this one over here, and that one over there, and effectually draws them to Himself by changing their hearts, making them willing to come."
From http://www.reformationtheology.com/2006/02/election.php
From http://www.reformationtheology.com/2006/02/election.php
DrJamesAch
New Member
No misunderstanding at all:
"III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels[6] are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death."
Westminster Confession Ch 3, III, 3.
Calvinists just need to be honest and tell sinners God doesn't love them unless they are elect, and since there's no way to determine whether ones elect or not, tell them just hope that God elected them.
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So you're saying that God does not love those He has foreordained to death? That's not what the Confession says. Nor is it what the Bible teaches.
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HisWitness
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No, I am fond of Earth. However, there are some openings on Uranus for you.
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
HisWitness
New Member
Bless you Amy :love2::love2::love2:
Calvinist rewrite of Scripture continues non-Stop.
To deny God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth is simply silly. So the Calvinists try to say those that actually believe scripture also really deny it! Twaddle.
God desires all men to be saved according to His purpose and plan, rather than by compulsion. His plan is to set before the lost life and death and beg them to choose life. Thus God never intended to compel salvation, but to persuade the lost to accept salvation by grace through faith. If He credits a lost person's faith as righteousness, then He sets them apart in Christ, causes them to be born anew, and seals them in Christ with the Holy Spirit forever.
Calvinism has no actual support in scripture, but rather they cite vague verses and claim what this really means is and then pour in some Calvinist doctrine.
Here trying to escape the logical necessity, if God desires all men to be saved, and His plan is to save by compulsion via irresistible grace, then why are not all men saved? They have no answer so they shuck and jive, and try the old, you are just as bad as us dodge. LOL
To deny God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth is simply silly. So the Calvinists try to say those that actually believe scripture also really deny it! Twaddle.
God desires all men to be saved according to His purpose and plan, rather than by compulsion. His plan is to set before the lost life and death and beg them to choose life. Thus God never intended to compel salvation, but to persuade the lost to accept salvation by grace through faith. If He credits a lost person's faith as righteousness, then He sets them apart in Christ, causes them to be born anew, and seals them in Christ with the Holy Spirit forever.
Calvinism has no actual support in scripture, but rather they cite vague verses and claim what this really means is and then pour in some Calvinist doctrine.
Here trying to escape the logical necessity, if God desires all men to be saved, and His plan is to save by compulsion via irresistible grace, then why are not all men saved? They have no answer so they shuck and jive, and try the old, you are just as bad as us dodge. LOL
Van said:
There are no "ifs" in God's promises. Any person who comes to Jesus in dependence and faith for salvation will not be cast out under any circumstance.
Jhn 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
The reason those in Matthew 7 are not saved is because they trusted in their own works and righteousness and not Jesus.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These persons boasted that they had prophesied in Jesus's name, had cast out devils in his name, and in his name done many wonderful WORKS. This is why they were not saved.
Actually, this passage describes Lordship Salvation to a "T". Notice the emphasis shown that these folks called Jesus "Lord, Lord".
Saving faith is not merely believing Jesus is the Son of God, but trusting in Jesus alone to save you. The parable of the Pharisee and publican shows the exact same thing.
Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Notice this parable was addressed to those who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and looked down on others.
Notice that just like the persons in Matthew 7, the Pharisee boasted of his obedience to God and his good works.
The publican made no such boast, but simply confessed he was a sinner who had fallen short of the glory of God and cast himself completely on God's mercy. This is saving faith. Jesus said this man went down to his house justified or forgiven all his sins.
The Pharisee was not an atheist, he truly believed in God, but he did not trust in God alone to save him, he trusted in his own good works. And this is exactly why those in Matthew 7 were not saved as well.
But there are no "ifs" with God, if a man sincerely comes to Jesus and calls on him to save him as the publican cried out in Luke 18, he can know for an absolute certainty he is saved. He can know because the Word of God says so.
Rom 10:11 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
You need to take that "if" out of your message Van, it is not scriptural and throws doubt on God's promises.
DHK's is a good answer because it does not attempt to seek false agreement. Calvinism and Arminianism are not compatible theologies. We may agree on certain big picture doctrines but we view core beliefs differently. Scripture is bluntly clear that the sinner cannot and does not want to seek God (Romans 8:7; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 2:1 et al.). The Arminian cannot agree with this. That is fine. Blurring the lines of distinction between us is a disservice to those honestly seeking the truth.
My motto is, "Disagreement without malice."
saturneptune
New Member
Very good, precise post. I do not know how many realize it, must most posters lose interest or attention of novel sized posts well before the end.
Hi Winman, I am sorry but this is yet another case where you and I differ as to what scripture teaches.
In my view a person can profess faith, like the second soil of Matthew 13, but that faith can be rootless, and therefore God will not credit it as righteousness.
People can say Lord and Lord and do work of ministry, yet on that day Christ will say I never knew you, indicating God did not credit their hypocritical faith as righteousness.
If you take a look at John 6:37, the idea is not to come to a profession of faith, because all that are given arrive in Christ, thus they will not be cast out. So to be given means to be put in Christ, by God, not for you or me to profess faith in Christ.
Paul taught we must examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith? If by professing faith, no matter how flawed, brought salvation, then salvation would depend upon the man that wills, rather than on God who has mercy, Romans 16:9.
The folks of Matthew 7:21-23 had "called" on the name of the Lord, saying "Lord, Lord" yet were not saved. Therefore it is God who decides whether your call is actually a "call" in His sovereign judgment.
If we look not at Romans 10:11 (typo) but at Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21, Romans 10:13 and 1 Corinthians 1:2 we find the phrase and the promise. Your stumbling stone is thinking salvation is automatic for anyone who professes faith, as if God was bound by His promise to save anyone who professes faith. No, he knows who believes and He only keeps His covenant of love with those who believe from the heart and forsake the treasures (things or relationships) of this world. He credits our faith or not. That way it does not depend on the man that wills. Yes I know that means classic Arminianism is wrong. Scripture is scripture. Romans 4:4-5;24.
In my view a person can profess faith, like the second soil of Matthew 13, but that faith can be rootless, and therefore God will not credit it as righteousness.
People can say Lord and Lord and do work of ministry, yet on that day Christ will say I never knew you, indicating God did not credit their hypocritical faith as righteousness.
If you take a look at John 6:37, the idea is not to come to a profession of faith, because all that are given arrive in Christ, thus they will not be cast out. So to be given means to be put in Christ, by God, not for you or me to profess faith in Christ.
Saving faith is faith God credits as righteousness, our faith cannot be righteous of itself, because our works of righteousness are as filthy rags. It is God who turns the pig's ear of our faith, into the silk purse of righteousness.
Paul taught we must examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith? If by professing faith, no matter how flawed, brought salvation, then salvation would depend upon the man that wills, rather than on God who has mercy, Romans 16:9.
The folks of Matthew 7:21-23 had "called" on the name of the Lord, saying "Lord, Lord" yet were not saved. Therefore it is God who decides whether your call is actually a "call" in His sovereign judgment.
If we look not at Romans 10:11 (typo) but at Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21, Romans 10:13 and 1 Corinthians 1:2 we find the phrase and the promise. Your stumbling stone is thinking salvation is automatic for anyone who professes faith, as if God was bound by His promise to save anyone who professes faith. No, he knows who believes and He only keeps His covenant of love with those who believe from the heart and forsake the treasures (things or relationships) of this world. He credits our faith or not. That way it does not depend on the man that wills. Yes I know that means classic Arminianism is wrong. Scripture is scripture. Romans 4:4-5;24.
Those verses you quoted do not prove Total Inability, because there are many scriptures that show the natural man has the ability to believe and receive the Spirit.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
These men were natural men, they were unsaved, and yet they understood Peter's preaching and their hearts were pricked and deeply convicted, so that they inquired what they must do to save themselves out of the dire situation they were in.
Peter told them they must repent and believe (because only believers are baptized) and AFTERWARD they would receive the Holy Spirit. This refutes your interpretation of both Rom 8:7 and 1 Cor 2:14. There are many other scriptures that also refute your interpretation of these scriptures.
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
You interpret 1 Cor 2:14 to teach that the natural man cannot receive or believe spiritual things, but Paul's question demands the answer that these persons received the Holy Spirit by first believing the gospel. There is more;
Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Paul's question here shows he believed that receiving the Spirit occurs after and as a result of believing the gospel, again refuting your interpretation of both Rom 8:7 and 1 Cor 2:14.
Rom 8:7 does not say a person cannot believe, it says that while a man is in the flesh he cannot do anything that pleases God.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 8 clearly teaches that while a man's mind is preoccupied with fleshly desires that he cannot possibly do any good thing that pleases God. But this does not mean man does not have the ability to take his mind off fleshly desires and pay attention to spiritual matters.
Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
This was in the garden before any of the disciples had received the indwelling Holy Spirit, so Jesus is clearly speaking of man's "natural" spirit he was born with, and Jesus said their spirit "indeed is willing" to obey him, but their flesh was weak and caused them to fall asleep.
This shows that the natural man can attend unto spiritual things, though he must battle against the infirmities of his flesh. Nevertheless, this scripture absolutely refutes Total Inability, Jesus showing that the natural man can indeed be willing to be obedient, though it is a real struggle against his flesh.
You have to read all the scriptures, not just cherry pick those that support your presuppositions.
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You have got to love the "et al." Why there are lots more verses I could cite, but folks lose interest if my post gets too long. LOL
Romans 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Calvinism reads into this verse that a man of flesh, a natural unregenerate person cannot set his or her mind on anything other than the flesh. Thus they read it as saying "A man of flesh is hostile to God...." Not how it reads, so this verse does not say bluntly or clearly that the sinner cannot and does not want to seek God at any time. Calvinism simply misinterprets the verse to manufacture supposed support for their man-made doctrine.
1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. Calvinism reads into this verse that "the things of the Spirit of God" refers to "all things of the Spirit of God. However, Paul is referring to some things of the Spirit of God, specifically spiritual meat. This made clear in verse 3:1 where Paul speaks to them as men of flesh teaching them milk, thus spiritual milk, the fundamentals of the gospel, can be understood and accepted by men of flesh. Calvinism simply misinterprets the verse to manufacture supposed support for their man-made doctrine.
Ephesians 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins Calvinism reads into this verse that being dead means not only separated from our Holy God because of our sinful and corrupted condition, but also means - the Calvinism addition - unable to seek God and trust in Christ. However "dead" men seek God all the time in scripture, sometimes by works and sometimes by faith. Matthew 23:13 teaches of men who were entering heaven, therefore were seeking God, yet were blocked by false teachers. The rewrite of the definition of being spiritually dead is unbiblical. Calvinism simply misinterprets the verse to manufacture supposed support for their man-made doctrine.
To deny God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth is simply silly. So the Calvinists try to say those that actually believe scripture also really deny it! Twaddle.
God desires all men to be saved according to His purpose and plan, rather than by compulsion. His plan is to set before the lost life and death and beg them to choose life. Thus God never intended to compel salvation, but to persuade the lost to accept salvation by grace through faith. If He credits a lost person's faith as righteousness, then He sets them apart in Christ, causes them to be born anew, and seals them in Christ with the Holy Spirit forever.
Calvinism has no actual support in scripture, but rather they cite vague verses and claim what this really means is and then pour in some Calvinist doctrine.
Here trying to escape the logical necessity, if God desires all men to be saved, and His plan is to save by compulsion via irresistible grace, then why are not all men saved? They have no answer so they shuck and jive, and try the old, you are just as bad as us dodge. LOL
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