North Carolina Council of Churches Pits 2nd Commandment vs. 2nd Amendment

[1689Dave]

Well, then we should leave it to the individual to discern whether it's their day to be a martyr or a protector.

Everyone has an appointed time to die. For the Christian dying and going to heaven is better than remaining on earth according to Paul and others. Would you prefer upholding Christ's example and dying unarmed as a martyr? Or laying around battling cancer or even worse diseases? Remember, the fear of death robs you of a quality life on earth.

 

[Rob_BW]

Now we can "what if?" this to death. If you and an atheist were attacked by a murderer, would you rather defend the nonbeliever from death so that they might have time to receive faith, or stand by meekly knowing their eternal destination?

What if, what if, what if...we can invent scenarios for anything.

And again, you have not given any proof that gunowners spend more time than any other group worrying about death. Does your purchase of car insurance mean that your quality of life is impacted by worrying about auto accidents? Of course not.

 

[1689Dave]

Now we can "what if?" this to death. If you and an atheist were attacked by a murderer, would you rather defend the nonbeliever from death so that they might have time to receive faith, or stand by meekly knowing their eternal destination?

What if, what if, what if...we can invent scenarios for anything.

And again, you have not given any proof that gunowners spend more time than any other group worrying about death. Does your purchase of car insurance mean that your quality of life is impacted by worrying about auto accidents? Of course not.

Possibly the atheist is under God's wrath and it is their time to die. But even then, the younger they die the better, and the less suffering in hell. Than if they were to pay for many more sins that would accumulate over a lifetime. Plus, Jesus says all that the Father gives to him will come to him. So these cannot die before they come to Christ.

 

[kyredneck]

human beings are quite capable of making just about anything an idol.

Zactly. Thank you.

I doubt most gun owners are in that position

I know a couple.

"Did the gun do it alone or did it have an accomplice?" I am opposed to guns going around killing people according to their own will, but that doesn't seem to be the nature of the problem.

Lol, zactly!

If people don't act with hostility to my question

What? Here on the Baptist Board? Surely not!

 

[Reynolds]

Do you think everyone has an appointed time of death according to scripture?

No.

 

[1689Dave]

No.

“Seeing his days are determined, The number of his months are with thee, Thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;” (Job 14:5) (KJV 1900)

“And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;” (Acts 17:26) (KJV 1900)

“Your eyes saw me when I was inside the womb. All the days ordained for me were recorded in your scroll before one of them came into existence.” (Psalm 139:16) (NET)

 

[carpro]

“Seeing his days are determined, The number of his months are with thee, Thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;” (Job 14:5) (KJV 1900)

“And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;” (Acts 17:26) (KJV 1900)

“Your eyes saw me when I was inside the womb. All the days ordained for me were recorded in your scroll before one of them came into existence.” (Psalm 139:16) (NET)

Just because God knows the time of our death doesn't mean He approves of the means or the method.

 

[Reynolds]

“Seeing his days are determined, The number of his months are with thee, Thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;” (Job 14:5) (KJV 1900)

“And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;” (Acts 17:26) (KJV 1900)

“Your eyes saw me when I was inside the womb. All the days ordained for me were recorded in your scroll before one of them came into existence.” (Psalm 139:16) (NET)

Job 14 is an accurate account of what Job said. Job is an odd book in that we do not know what Job said is true and what is not. He is speaking from his perspective and not as a prophet.

Acts 17:26 references nations, not individual men.
Psalm 139:16, according to most scholars I have read, is figurative.

 

[Aaron]

Do you think everyone has an appointed time of death according to scripture?

Yes, and one never knows when he will meet a malefactor whose appointed time has come.

 

[Aaron]

Do you believe God's word? Or prefer the carnal mindset of paganism?

Oh, you stepped in it now . . . lol.

I believe Christ commanded his disciples to buy swords, and not merely to accessorize.

 

[1689Dave]

Oh, you stepped in it now . . . lol.

I believe Christ commanded his disciples to buy swords, and not merely to accessorize.

Can you provide examples of any Christian in the NT using violence in self-defence? Jesus rebuked Peter because he tried to use the sword that way.

 

[1689Dave]

Job 14 is an accurate account of what Job said. Job is an odd book in that we do not know what Job said is true and what is not. He is speaking from his perspective and not as a prophet.

Acts 17:26 references nations, not individual men.
Psalm 139:16, according to most scholars I have read, is figurative.

Was Job wrong?

 

[1689Dave]

Just because God knows the time of our death doesn't mean He approves of the means or the method.

How can God sustain anything he does not approve of?

“For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.” (Acts 17:28) (KJV 1900)

 

[Reynolds]

Was Job wrong?

We don't know. We know that some of his dialogue was wrong. The obvious example beingvthat he attributed the active work of Satan to the work of God.

 

[Aaron]

Can you provide examples of any Christian in the NT using violence in self-defence? Jesus rebuked Peter because he tried to use the sword that way.

Yeah, their swords were for letter openers, LOL.

But Christ did not even use words when He was arrested. Do we get to use words?

Here's the thing you're leaving out. If Christ's kingdom were of this world, then His disciples would fight, as He said, to bring it about. Now marriage is of this world. So is civil law. Society and one's duties to resist one's oppressors in defense of his life, his liberty, his property, and that of his neighbors' are all of this world. Do we fight to spread the Gospel? No. Do we fight to save life, liberty and property? Yes.

 

[Aaron]

Can you provide examples of any Christian in the NT using violence in self-defence? Jesus rebuked Peter because he tried to use the sword that way.

But the next time I come across a malefactor looking for a willing vicitm, I'll send him your way. LOL.

 

[1689Dave]

We don't know. We know that some of his dialogue was wrong. The obvious example beingvthat he attributed the active work of Satan to the work of God.

If God knows all, we certainly have an unchangeable date with death. If we can change that, God is not God not knowing all.

 

[1689Dave]

But the next time I come across a malefactor looking for a willing vicitm, I'll send him your way. LOL.

So you cannot think of any examples of NT believers using violence to defend themselves?

 

[1689Dave]

Yeah, their swords were for letter openers, LOL.

Jesus needed to be numbered among the transgressors to fulfill prophecy. So they had two swords that identified them as transgressors. And Peter underscored it when he cut off Malchus' ear, to Jesus' rebuke and dismay.

 

[Rob_BW]

If God knows all, we certainly have an unchangeable date with death. If we can change that, God is not God not knowing all.

Non Sequitur. We're not having trouble with God knowing all.

It's your assertion that any act of self defense means we lack faith in God's plan that is the problem.