North Carolina Council of Churches Pits 2nd Commandment vs. 2nd Amendment

[Aaron]

Yes, so?

Hezekiah DID have a date with death. It WAS changed because Hezekiah petitioned God about it. God DID know all about it. So your statement:

If God knows all, we certainly have an unchangeable date with death. If we can change that, God is not God not knowing all.

is in error.

Yeah. I kinduva 'gree with this.

 

[carpro]

“Just as no one has power over the wind to restrain it, so no one has power over the day of his death. Just as no one can be discharged during the battle, so wickedness cannot rescue the wicked.” (Ecclesiastes 8:8) (NET)

I'll try again.

So would He approve of suicide?

Yes or no will suffice.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I posted this on another thread dealing with the same topic:

Much is made of Peter's use of a sword in the Garden (as found in Matthew and Mark). However, a question is to the best of my knowledge never asked. Why did he have a sword in the first place? The answer I believe is found in Luke 22:36, 38. However, the question as to why Our Lord had no need of Peter's sword is found in John 18:5-6. Simply put, Our Lord protected Himself by revealing a bare glimmer of His Divinity. Peter was a bit hasty and premature in his actions.

 

[1689Dave]

I'll try again.

So would He approve of suicide?

Yes or no will suffice.

God ordained Judas' suicide. And “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36) (KJV 1900)

 

[1689Dave]

Wow. LOLOLOLOL

Why else would they have swords Jesus rebuked Peter for using?

 

[1689Dave]

I'm told of a Centurion who was a man great faith. Bet that sword was out a time or two.

Cornelius quit the Army and became a pastor if you look into Church history.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

Why else would they have swords Jesus rebuked Peter for using?

IMO, Jesus' rebuke of Peter there is like His rebuke in Matthew 16, "Get thee behind me, Satan." In each case, Peter's words/actions sought to hinder Jesus' mission: the cross. Just as Jesus' rebuke of Peter found in Matthew isn't relevant to speech, per se, I don't think His rebuke of Peter in the garden is specifically relevant to defense via force.

 

[1689Dave]

IMO, Jesus' rebuke of Peter there is like His rebuke in Matthew 16, "Get thee behind me, Satan." In each case, Peter's words/actions sought to hinder Jesus' mission: the cross. Just as Jesus' rebuke of Peter found in Matthew isn't relevant to speech, per se, I don't think His rebuke of Peter in the garden is specifically relevant to defense via force.

Then why did Jesus say all the other things he said about non violence, turning the other cheek, not rendering evil for evil, etc., etc? Why can you not point to one single Christian using violence in self defence in the NT?

 

[carpro]

God ordained Judas' suicide. And “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36) (KJV 1900)

What are you afraid of.

Last chance. Yes or no.

Does God approve of suicide.

 

[InTheLight]

Why can you not point to one single Christian using violence in self defence in the NT?

Simple. It never came up in the experiences of the apostles. They were never physically accosted so they never had to utilize self defense. (Being flogged in prison doesn't count as a self-defense situation.)

On the other hand there were many times the apostles wished that Jesus would overthrow the Roman government and institute the Kingdom of God (Acts 1:6, for example.)

 

[1689Dave]

Does God approve of suicide.

Of course not. But he judges wicked people with it and other forms of death. Judas for one.

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth by their unrighteousness,” (Romans 1:18) (NET)


“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36) (KJV 1900)

 

[1689Dave]

Simple. It never came up in the experiences of the apostles. They were never physically accosted so they never had to utilize self defense. (Being flogged in prison doesn't count as a self-defense situation.)

On the other hand there were many times the apostles wished that Jesus would overthrow the Roman government and institute the Kingdom of God (Acts 1:6, for example.)

How about Stephen? James? Paul beaten and left for dead 3 or so times? John the Baptist? All of the Apostles but one who were executed?

 

[InTheLight]

Of course not. But he judges wicked people with it and other forms of death. Judas for one.

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth by their unrighteousness,” (Romans 1:18) (NET)


“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36) (KJV 1900)

I think Carpro's point is that people that commit suicide DO, in fact, control the date of their death. You seem to be arguing that God is the one that sets up that appointment with death. In this view God would be approving of suicide.

 

[1689Dave]

I think Carpro's point is that people that commit suicide DO, in fact, control the date of their death. You seem to be arguing that God is the one that sets up that appointment with death. In this view God would be approving of suicide.

If God works all things after the council of his own will, how can anyone work some things after the council of theirs?

“In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:” (Ephesians 1:11) (KJV 1900)

 

[InTheLight]

If God works all things after the council of his own will, how can anyone work some things after the council of theirs?

Yes or no.

God causes people to commit suicide?

 

[1689Dave]

Yes or no.

God causes people to commit suicide?

What about Paul delivering the Corinthian brother to Satan for the destruction of the flesh?

 

[InTheLight]

What about Paul delivering the Corinthian brother to Satan for the destruction of the flesh?

Yes or no.

God causes people to commit suicide?

 

[1689Dave]

Yes or no.

God causes people to commit suicide?

"The other prominent biblical suicide, Saul, is also seen by some as acting out of despair; thus the Geneva Bible notes that “his cruel life hathe a desparate end, as is commonly seene in them, that persecute the children of God” (1 Sam. 31:4)."

Jeffrey, D. L. (1992). In A Dictionary of biblical tradition in English literature. Grand Rapids, MI: W.B. Eerdmans.

 

[InTheLight]

"The other prominent biblical suicide, Saul, is also seen by some as acting out of despair; thus the Geneva Bible notes that “his cruel life hathe a desparate end, as is commonly seene in them, that persecute the children of God” (1 Sam. 31:4)."

Jeffrey, D. L. (1992). In A Dictionary of biblical tradition in English literature. Grand Rapids, MI: W.B. Eerdmans.

Yes or no.

God causes people to commit suicide?

 

[InTheLight]

Yes or no.

God causes people to commit suicide?

I guess you're not going to answer a direct question. However, we can infer that you believe God causes people to commit suicide based on these statements you've made in this very thread:

Everyone has an appointed time to die.

If God knows all, we certainly have an unchangeable date with death.

Just as no one has power over the wind to restrain it, so no one has power over the day of his death.

How can God be God if you determine what happens to you?

God ordained Judas' suicide.