Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Amazing that you do not even see or more likely ignore the reality of the basis of your theology.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Not Closed Theology
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
- Status
Amazing that you do not even see or more likely ignore the reality of the basis of your theology.
It must be too difficult to provide a quote. Should we conclude it is an unwarranted inference. Time will tell...
(1 Peter 2:8-10)
And, “He is the stone that makes people stumble, the rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they do not obey God’s word, and so they meet the fate that was planned for them. But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light. “Once you had no identity as a people; now you are God’s people. Once you received no mercy; now you have received God’s mercy.”
Everyone believes in God's foreknowledge of His predestined events. That says nothing.
If God's foreknowledge is perfect, and it is, then if God knew who will be saved and who will not, before creation, then no other choice is possible. To deny the obvious is to waste everyone's time with claims like "you must accept the absurdity because you cannot fully comprehend God." Fiddlesticks
Unless your theology holds that God is the author of sin, you are an open theist to some degree. Almost no one admits that they believe God causes our sin then punishes us for the sins He compelled.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Once again a poster has dishonored truth and purposely implied falsehood in the guise of questions.
Is God the author of sin? No
Am I an open theist? Yes, as God did not predestine our sins.
I am not confusing God knowing what will happen with saying God will not be wrong, thus no other future is possible. You are the one pushing confusion and denial of the obvious.
God is all knowing, that is not in dispute. I have posted what is the biblically defined meaning of the term, which is God knows everything He chooses to know, which of course allows that God can choose not to remember our forgiven sin.
Once again someone addresses me and hides from stating a position supported by scripture.
Unless your theology holds that God is the author of sin, you are an open theist to some degree. Almost no one admits that they believe God causes our sin then punishes us for the sins He compelled.
Your assertion is silly. You're making an absolute, universal statement that you cannot backup with scripture.
From Desiring God:
"The [Westminster Confession] says that God “neither is nor can be the author or approver of sin” (5:4). Despite this denial in a major Reformed confession, Arminians regularly charge that Reformed theology makes God the author of sin. They assume that if God brings about evil in any sense, he must therefore approve it and deserve the blame. In their view, nothing less than libertarian freedom will serve to absolve God from the charge of authoring sin.
God Does Not Author Sin
But as we saw [in chapter 8] libertarian freedom is incoherent and unbiblical. And as we saw [in chapter 4] God does bring about sinful human actions. To deny this, or to charge God with wickedness on account of it, is not open to a Bible-believing Christian. Somehow, we must confess both that God has a role in bringing evil about, and that in doing so he is holy and blameless. . . . God does bring sins about, but always for his own good purposes. So in bringing sin to pass he does not himself commit sin. If that argument is sound, then a Reformed doctrine of the sovereignty of God does not imply that God is the author of sin."
Does God ‘Author’ Sin?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
@Van I asked you a serious question how does that 1] dishonor truth or 2] imply falsehood? Not everything is an attack on you, most times a question is just a question.
How does one not believing that God predestined sin make one an open theist? I am not an open theist and I agree God did not predestine sin so your conclusion is not sound.
Van you have made a logical error. Saying that God can choose not to remember our forgiven sins does not mean that He has forgotten them but rather that He will not hold those sins against us. To say that God, as you seem to imply, can not remember something calls into question His omniscience. Do you really think that God just forgets things, do you think He just at some point can not remember what our sins were?
I am trying to understand your position but you have failed.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
@taisto why do you not quote the WCF? This is why people say that Calvinism makes God the author of sin.
Chapter III - Of God’s Eternal Decree.
i. God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: {notice not just some things but all things}
"unchangeably ordain whatsoever" Those words do not leave you any wiggle room.
Now after they realized just what they had said they then had to add an escape clause: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,
Since by their own words they realized that the first part made God the author of sin why did they just not take the first clause out? Perhaps because they were more concerned about protecting their Calvinistic divine determinism than they were about the character of God.
Calvinists have put themselves in this conundrum and they just expect everyone else to just ignore the fail logic of their position.
Why do you not want me to quote Desiring God? It explains the terminology and defeats your name excuses?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Well do you not think that quoting the source of the quote from Desiring God would be better. Or perhaps you do not like the WCF quote as it shows how bad the Calvinist theology and logic is.
How many times have I been told well this is what the WCF or the LBCF says so this has to be trusted. Or this great Calvinist said this is what the bible actually means so why do you not accept it. Strange that you want me to trust what some man says the WCF says but then you ask why I quote the WCF? To show the error that is presented in the DG article.
By the way what are these "name excuses" you refer to?
Read the article I provided.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
What do you think that would prove? An article written from the Calvinist perspective. You seem to think that Calvinistic view of scripture is biblical, I do not.
The Calvinist teaching that unbelievers are incapable of simply believing in the gospel message about Jesus flies in the face of scripture “...the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes,...” Rom 1:16
According to Calvinism, God does not want everyone to be saved rather only a select few but once again this does not agree with scripture “who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” 1Ti 2:4
If Calvinism is true I can't think of a better excuse for an atheist than the one that Calvinism ultimately gives him.
They can honestly say, if Calvinism is true I was born a God hater without the ability to believe in my own God unless He unilaterally picked me before I was even born for reasons that He never reveals and gives me this miracle of faith causing me to believe.So the question becomes, why condemn the atheist as he is doing just what God decreed that he should do.
So we have to conclude that if Calvinism is true, then God has predestined most of His children to resist His truth so as to glorify Himself.
Last edited:
1) A taint so claim
2) A denial of scripture
3) Did anyone say God allowing sin means He approves sin? Nope so more obfuscation.
4) Since God does not author or cause or predestine sin, scripture teaches open theology.
Unless your theology holds that God is the author of sin, you are an open theist to some degree. Almost no one admits that they believe God causes our sin then punishes us for the sins He compelled.
Since "Desiring God" says God does not author sin, but "brings it about" without causing it, we have yet another oxymoron defense of false doctrine. God sets before us life and death, but that does not bring about our choice frequently of death, it only allows us to make that choice.
Why prattle on?
1) Asking questions that purposely impliy falsehood in the guise of questions is to dishonor truth.
2) Did I say every question is an attack? Nope so obfuscation on display.
3) Closed Theology = God causes everything
4) Open Theology = God does not cause everything, such as our sin.
5) You are pushing logical absurdity, no me. God says He will remember no more our sin forever, and that means He actually will not remember at least some aspect of our sin forever.
6) Did anyone say God cannot remember? Nope, so yet another effort to misrepresent my view.
7) Did anyone say God just forgets things? Nope, so yet another effort to misrepresent my view.
To repeat, God knows what He chooses to know. That means He can choose not to know an aspect of our sin, or the time of Christ's return, or whether Abraham will be willing to slay His only son. This view is supported by "all" scripture!!
- Status