Once again you ignore verses 3-12, about election and predestination, to twist the text to a man centered version. We see what you are trying to do, lol but once again this is a tragic fail.
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Not Everyone
- Thread starter Zaatar71
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Ezk 36, is not about salvation, lollol
I will take it as a serious post, when you deal more honestly with the texts. Thanks for trying!
No, we are not enemies, we just disagree.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Election is for those that have heard and believed and they are predestined to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself.
That you can not even understand that points to your lack of ability to read with comprehension.
But I do know why you ignore these truths. It would blowup your false narrative.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Who were saved? Not Israel?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
What you mean is when I agree with your failed interpretation. That's not going to happen.
But I do see that you do like to ignore a great many things such as the pagan roots of the religion you hold to.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Incontrovertible objective fact:
The “quote” in your post (for “is counsel shall stand, and He will do all His pleasure.” is NOT a quote from the Bible! Rather its origin appears to be from the following verses in the Bible,
Psalms 115:3. Our God is in the heavens;
he does whatever he pleases. (NRSV)
Isaiah 46:10. declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, “My purpose shall stand,
and I will fulfill my intention,” (NRSV)
Ephesians 1:11. In Christ we have also obtained an inheritance, having been destined according to the purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to his counsel and will, (NRSV)
Incontrovertible objective fact:
Psalms 115:3 and Isaiah 46:10 are written in ancient Hebrew poetry.
Incontrovertible objective fact:
The Psalms in their entirety are poems, and much of Isaiah is written in poetry rather than prose. Ephesians 1:11 is part of the doxology found in Ephesians 1:3-14 which in the Greek text includes one main clause (“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”) and many subordinate clauses and hence it is one complex sentence—the whole of which is a doxology.
Incontrovertible objective facts:
Ancient Hebrew poetry does NOT express objective information—it expresses feelings and emotions. Doxologies from the New Testament do NOT express objective information any more than do eulogies at a funeral. However, ancient Hebrew prose when found in the genre of literature known as the historical narrative does express objective information:
1. The word of the Lord came to Jonah a second time, saying,
2. “Get up, go to Nineveh, that great city, and proclaim to it the message that I tell you.”
3. So Jonah set out and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly large city, a three days' walk across.
4. Jonah began to go into the city, going a day's walk. And he cried out, "Forty days more, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!"
5. And the people of Nineveh believed God; they proclaimed a fast, and everyone, great and small, put on sackcloth.
6. When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, removed his robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
7. Then he had a proclamation made in Nineveh: "By the decree of the king and his nobles: No human being or animal, no herd or flock, shall taste anything. They shall not feed, nor shall they drink water.
8. Human beings and animals shall be covered with sackcloth, and they shall cry mightily to God. All shall turn from their evil ways and from the violence that is in their hands.
9. Who knows? God may relent and change his mind; he may turn from his fierce anger, so that we do not perish."
10. When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil ways, God changed his mind about the calamity that he had said he would bring upon them; and he did not do it. (NRSV)
These objective facts prove that the statement, “for “His counsel shall stand, and He will do all His pleasure” is charged with feeling and emotions rather than objective biblical information. The objective biblical information is that God, when new information comes to His attention, changes his plans accordingly—even in cases of unforeseen genuine repentance.
Roman’s 10:14. how can they call upon Him whom they have not believed?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
You could have just read the verse {Rom 10:14} in context or even just read the whole verse to get your answer.
That is why we are to spread the gospel message so that people can hear and respond in faith and God will respond to their faith by graciously saving them.
So the will of God was that Adam not eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. We know this because God told Adam not to eat from it. The commandment is simple enough to show that God did not will Adam to sin.
But Adam did sin. How can Adam go against the Words of God. By Calvinist logic, Adam is greater than God.
By reasonable logic, Adam had free agency.
And divine determinism on every molecule is not what is meant by Is. 46. Divine Sovereignty is an acceptable answer given a reasonable understanding of the word. Everything is subject to God rather than everything does exactly what God determined.
Anyone who removes free agency from man, in sin or salvation, lacks a depth of understanding necessary to read the Bible with good understanding. It is clearly stated that God gives salvation and it is not of sinful men. It is equally clear that salvation can be neglected and denied.
You are speaking of a different God??? Mal.3 describes the God who exists;6 For I am the Lord, I do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed. 7 From the days of your fathers you have gone away from My ordinances and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you, says the Lord of Hosts.
When you say God receives "new information" you betray the fact that you do not understand what has already been revealed in scripture about the true and living God. The biblical God has no "unforeseen events" of any kind! Friend, a good study of the attributes of God would help you.
God did not force Adam to sin.God is not the author of sin.
What you are describing as logic, is your own flawed carnal wisdom/philosophy
Of course he had free agency
So only you can give a reasonable understanding of it??? lol
This last group of statements, I do not understand what exactly you are trying to say. Would you be able to clarify it for us?
ibid
After observing that the reprobates perish wilfully, the apostle, by a striking transition, addresses himself to the elect Thessalonians, saying, "But we are bound to give thanks unto God always for you, brethren, beloved of the Lord, because God hath, from the beginning, chosen you to salvation, through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2 Thessalonians 2.).
"Who hath saved us and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose, and grace, which was given us in Christ before the world began" (2 Timothy 1.). St. Jude, on the other hand, describes the reprobate as "ungodly men, who were, of old, foreordained to this condemnation."
Another apostle makes this peremptory declaration, "Who stumble at the word, being disobedient, whereunto also they were appointed: but ye are a chosen generation [an elect race], a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people, a people purchased to be His peculiar property and possession" (1 Pet.2:8-9); to all which may be added, "Whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 17:8).
After observing that the reprobates perish wilfully, the apostle, by a striking transition, addresses himself to the elect Thessalonians, saying, "But we are bound to give thanks unto God always for you, brethren, beloved of the Lord, because God hath, from the beginning, chosen you to salvation, through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2 Thessalonians 2.).
"Who hath saved us and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose, and grace, which was given us in Christ before the world began" (2 Timothy 1.). St. Jude, on the other hand, describes the reprobate as "ungodly men, who were, of old, foreordained to this condemnation."
Another apostle makes this peremptory declaration, "Who stumble at the word, being disobedient, whereunto also they were appointed: but ye are a chosen generation [an elect race], a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people, a people purchased to be His peculiar property and possession" (1 Pet.2:8-9); to all which may be added, "Whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 17:8).
ibid;
How can this be accounted for? Only on the single principle of peremptory predestination flowing from the sovereign will of God. No wonder, then, that our Lord concludes that chapter with these remarkable words, "I thank Thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Thy sight." Where Christ thanks the Father for doing that very thing which Arminians exclaim against as unjust and censure as partial.
How can this be accounted for? Only on the single principle of peremptory predestination flowing from the sovereign will of God. No wonder, then, that our Lord concludes that chapter with these remarkable words, "I thank Thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Thy sight." Where Christ thanks the Father for doing that very thing which Arminians exclaim against as unjust and censure as partial.
ibid;
"For the elect's sake those days shall be shortened" (Matthew 24.),
and ibid, "If it were possible, they should deceive the very elect,"
where, it is plain, Christ teaches two things: "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Matthew 25.).
"Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God, but to them that are without" (i.e., out of the pale of election) "all these things are done in parables; that seeing, they may see, and not perceive and hearing, they may hear, and not understand: lest at any time, they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them" (Mark 11.).
"Rejoice, because your names are written in heaven" (Luke 10.).
"It is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom" (Luke 12.).
"One shall be taken and the other shall be left" (Luke 17.).
"All that the Father hath given Me shall come unto Me" (John 6.), as much as to say these shall but the rest cannot.
"He that is of God, heareth God's words; ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God" (John 8.), not chosen of Him.
"Ye believe not, because ye are not of My sheep" (John 10.).
"Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you" (John 15.).
He presents the truth that God's people rejoice in these truths
"For the elect's sake those days shall be shortened" (Matthew 24.),
and ibid, "If it were possible, they should deceive the very elect,"
where, it is plain, Christ teaches two things: "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Matthew 25.).
"Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God, but to them that are without" (i.e., out of the pale of election) "all these things are done in parables; that seeing, they may see, and not perceive and hearing, they may hear, and not understand: lest at any time, they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them" (Mark 11.).
"Rejoice, because your names are written in heaven" (Luke 10.).
"It is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom" (Luke 12.).
"One shall be taken and the other shall be left" (Luke 17.).
"All that the Father hath given Me shall come unto Me" (John 6.), as much as to say these shall but the rest cannot.
"He that is of God, heareth God's words; ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God" (John 8.), not chosen of Him.
"Ye believe not, because ye are not of My sheep" (John 10.).
"Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you" (John 15.).
He presents the truth that God's people rejoice in these truths
Now what is predestination but the determining will of God? I defy the subtlest semi-Pelagian in the world to form or convey a just and worthy notion of the Supreme Being without admitting Him to be the great cause of all causes else, Himself dependent on none, who willed from eternity how He would act in time, and settled a regular, determinate scheme of what He would do and permit to be done from the beginning to the consummation of the world. Zanchius
here again, Zanchius helps us;
But the doctrine of predestination, absolute, free, unconditional predestination, here steps in and gives God His own. It lays the axe to the root of human boasting, and cuts down (for which reason the natural man hates it) every legal, every independent, every self-righteous imagination that would exalt itself against the grace of God and the glory of Christ. It tells us that God hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in His Son, "according as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world," in order to our being afterwards made "holy and blameless before Him in love" (Ephesians 1.).
Predestination should be publicly taught and insisted upon, in order to confirm and strengthen true believers in the certainty and confidence of their salvation.
Whatever comes to pass in time is the result of His will from everlasting, consequently. My afflictions were a part of His original plan, and are all ordered in number, weight and measure, the very hairs of my head are (every one) counted by Him, nor can a single hair fall to the ground but in consequence of His determination. Hence, My distresses are not the result of chance, accident or a fortuitous combination of circumstances, but the providential accomplishment of God's purpose, and Designed to answer some wise and gracious ends, nor Shall my affliction continue a moment longer than God sees meet.He who brought me to it has promised to support me under it and to carry me through it. All shall, most assuredly, work together for His glory and my good, therefore "The cup which my heavenly Father hath given me to drink, shall I not drink it?"
Yes, I will, in the strength He imparts, even rejoice in tribulation; and using the means of possible redress, which He hath or may hereafter put into my hands, I will commit myself and the event to Him, whose purpose cannot be overthrown, whose plan cannot be disconcerted, and who, whether I am resigned or not, will still go on to work all things after the counsel of His own will.
But the doctrine of predestination, absolute, free, unconditional predestination, here steps in and gives God His own. It lays the axe to the root of human boasting, and cuts down (for which reason the natural man hates it) every legal, every independent, every self-righteous imagination that would exalt itself against the grace of God and the glory of Christ. It tells us that God hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in His Son, "according as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world," in order to our being afterwards made "holy and blameless before Him in love" (Ephesians 1.).
Predestination should be publicly taught and insisted upon, in order to confirm and strengthen true believers in the certainty and confidence of their salvation.
Whatever comes to pass in time is the result of His will from everlasting, consequently. My afflictions were a part of His original plan, and are all ordered in number, weight and measure, the very hairs of my head are (every one) counted by Him, nor can a single hair fall to the ground but in consequence of His determination. Hence, My distresses are not the result of chance, accident or a fortuitous combination of circumstances, but the providential accomplishment of God's purpose, and Designed to answer some wise and gracious ends, nor Shall my affliction continue a moment longer than God sees meet.He who brought me to it has promised to support me under it and to carry me through it. All shall, most assuredly, work together for His glory and my good, therefore "The cup which my heavenly Father hath given me to drink, shall I not drink it?"
Yes, I will, in the strength He imparts, even rejoice in tribulation; and using the means of possible redress, which He hath or may hereafter put into my hands, I will commit myself and the event to Him, whose purpose cannot be overthrown, whose plan cannot be disconcerted, and who, whether I am resigned or not, will still go on to work all things after the counsel of His own will.
I did read in context. You need to read it again