Not to bring up the Catholic thing again, but...

[webdog]

My time spent with Mary has actually significantly improved my relationship with my Lord and Saviour, Jesus

Unless you are typing this from Heaven, you have spent no time with Mary. If you felt you have, I guarantee it was demonic influence. Since I am in Christ and have the Spirit within, there is nothing or nobody I can go to but God alone to improve my relationship with Him.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Pray tell why no one has answered the appropiate use of "I pray thee answer this"

because they don't know how to answer that...they want to limit the definition to fit their agenda...

in XC
-

 

[webdog]

The Apostles asked Jesus how to pray, not worship...the Apostles were devote Jews...they knew how to worship...

In XC
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Prayer is worship. Regardless, why didn't Christ mention Mary anywhere in "how" to pray?

 

[webdog]

because they don't know how to answer that...they want to limit the definition to fit their agenda...

in XC
-

There is nothing to answer as it is quite silly, it is simply a figure of speech. If I ask you "what's up", do you begin to say "clouds, stars, sun..."?

 

[webdog]

Pray tell why no one has answered the appropiate use of "I pray thee answer this"

What is there to answer? It is simply a figure of speech using the word, not defining the word.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

What is there to answer? It is simply a figure of speech using the word, not defining the word.

Its an appropiate use of the word which is used for speach between two people. Note in context of this use of the word worship a religous deity is not used.

 

[Amy.G]

because they don't know how to answer that...they want to limit the definition to fit their agenda...

in XC
-

Our agenda? We have no agenda other than to worship God and God alone.

We have been taught by Jesus to pray to "our Father in heaven".

We have been taught there is one mediator between God and man who is Christ Jesus.

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by Me."

You cannot go to the Father through anyone else.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

That is ridiculous. You are saying that when we pray to God it is no different than when we talk on the phone with a friend.

there's times when i worship God and there's times were i just have a conversation with God...people may think i'm talking to myself in my car...lol

why do you think the baptist and most protestant denominations call wednesday evening services..."prayer and worship service"

Your are using the word "prayer" in a totally different context than the subject being discussed here.

nope, in relation to seeking the intercession of others through prayer, we're not...i'm not worshipping my friend when i ask his intercession in prayer for me, nor am i worshipping Mary or St. George when i seek their intercession in prayer for me...

in XC
-

 

[webdog]

Its an appropiate use of the word which is used for speach between two people. Note in context of this use of the word worship a religous deity is not used.

If I say "I wish that you...", am I actually throwing a quarter into a fountain and making a wish? While it can be an appropriate use of the word in cultural language, it does NOT define the word in any way, shape or form.

 

[webdog]

there's times when i worship God and there's times were i just have a conversation with God...people may think i'm talking to myself in my car...lol

why do you think the baptist and most protestant denominations call wednesday evening services..."prayer and worship service"

:laugh: you are using a protestant's labeling of a Wednesday evening gathering to now define prayer and worship? There are times I just talk to my dad, and times I have a conversation with my dad. Am I doing something different each time besides talking to my dad? Regardless if you are on your knees in anguish, or saying a quick whisper prayer in a tough situation...you are PRAYING!

nope, in relation to seeking the intercession of others through prayer, we're not...i'm not worshipping my friend when i ask his intercession in prayer for me, nor am i worshipping Mary or St. George when i seek their intercession in prayer for me...

Apples and oranges. Asking a friend to pray for you is not the same as praying to them.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

If I say "I wish that you...", am I actually throwing a quarter into a fountain and making a wish? While it can be an appropriate use of the word in cultural language, it does NOT define the word in any way, shape or form.

Au contraire its a definition.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

You cannot go to the Father through anyone else.

I'm sorry Amy, but that's just a silly statement...every time I seek the prayers of others for my needs, I'm asking someone to approach God on my behalf...so, in essence I'm going to the Father though someone else.

Why does your Church have a prayer list with people who need your payers? why not tell them it'll do no good for them to pray for their cancer, only they should pray for themselves...

In XC
-

 

[Matt Black]

She was face to face with her son. Is this what you call prayer?

If I have a conversation with you, am I "praying" to you?

Ann asked why Mary would need to ask God for anything if she were face to face with Him. I merely gave an example when she was face to face with Him and still asked Him for something.

[ETA - when I pray, more often than not I ask God for something. Is that not prayer?]

 

[webdog]

Au contraire its a definition.

You are correct, it is "a" definition...but not the defintion of prayer in regards to Scripture that we are discussing. The demand in a lawsuit is also referred to as a prayer for relief, but I dont' see anyone using that definition in this conversation

 

[webdog]

I'm sorry Amy, but that's just a silly statement...every time I seek the prayers of others for my needs, I'm asking someone to approach God on my behalf...so, in essence I'm going to the Father though someone else.

Why does your Church have a prayer list with people who need your payers? why not tell them it'll do no good for them to pray for their cancer, only they should pray for themselves...

In XC
-

You keep arguing apples and oranges. Intercession for one another is commanded...prayer is also commanded...TO GOD. Someone approaching God on your behalf is not influencing YOUR approach to God.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

You are correct, it is "a" definition...but not the defintion of prayer in regards to Scripture that we are discussing. The demand in a lawsuit is also referred to as a prayer for relief, but I dont' see anyone using that definition in this conversation

Its very much implied in what we are discussing. Lori4dogs is saying that she doesn't pray to Mary in the Manner that she reverences God and that they are two different things. To her she is using this definition of prayer when speaking to Mary or the Saints. And your legal term there can very much be in this conversation if the Prayer is a legal referrence to releif. It seems to me you don't distinguish any aspect of Prayer from reverance in communication to God. Which is what is being argued about. I talk to God. Yet I can talk to you and you automatically see the difference based on the subject of the sentence. The same goes for prayer.

 

[webdog]

Its very much implied in what we are discussing. Lori4dogs is saying that she doesn't pray to Mary in the Manner that she reverences God and that they are two different things. To her she is using this definition of prayer when speaking to Mary or the Saints. And your legal term there can very much be in this conversation if the Prayer is a legal referrence to releif. It seems to me you don't distinguish any aspect of Prayer from reverance in communication to God. Which is what is being argued about. I talk to God. Yet I can talk to you and you automatically see the difference based on the subject of the sentence. The same goes for prayer.

As has already been brought up, we are forbidden from talking to the dead. She can redefine what she means by pray, but when it is speaking to someone who is not on this planet and in Heaven, it is worship plain and simple.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

As has already been brought up, we are forbidden from talking to the dead. She can redefine what she means by pray, but when it is speaking to someone who is not on this planet and in Heaven, it is worship plain and simple.

So if I spoke to Neil Armstrong when he was on the moon and not on this planet I was in essence worship the astronaut? Didn't Lori say Mary wasn't dead?

 

[DHK]

Yes. In old english. Sure. I pray thee answer this......

I didn't know that Jesus, Mary, Peter, Paul, etc. spoke Old English.
Are you KJVO? "If the King James was good enough for Paul, then it is good enough for me!" as they claim.

 

[annsni]

I'm sorry Amy, but that's just a silly statement...every time I seek the prayers of others for my needs, I'm asking someone to approach God on my behalf...so, in essence I'm going to the Father though someone else.

Why does your Church have a prayer list with people who need your payers? why not tell them it'll do no good for them to pray for their cancer, only they should pray for themselves...

In XC
-

Well, we ask people who are alive and can hear our prayers.

That's a big difference. Those who are dead know nothing of our prayers.