Not under Law --Under Grace!

[DHK]

According to my theory, you were never saved to start with.

Is this an admission that you are not saved since the chances of that happening to you are very great. The greatest cause of death today is heart failure.
Are you perfect--all the time. You never sin?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

According to my theory, you were never saved to start with.

GE:
Shucks!

 

[Brother Bob]

And suppose you lie, and die of a heart attack, suddenly without the chance of repentance. Then, according to your own theology you are doomed to Hell. Is this your theology?
Brother Bob?
Digging?__________________
DHK

Is this an admission that you are not saved since the chances of that happening to you are very great. The greatest cause of death today is heart failure.
Are you perfect--all the time. You never sin?__________________
DHK

Rev 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

If the word of God condemns me then I am lost.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Rev 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

If the word of God condemns me then I am lost.

Amen, Brother Bob!

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

His word says al, He will remain faithful to His Word.

He is able to save from the guttermost to the uttermost, but if the heart is hiding sin, if one turns from righteousness to wickedness and abominations, He must remain faithful to His Word. that one will die.

 

[Brother Bob]

I go back to the two greatest commandments:

Matthew 22:37-39 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
38And the second is like unto it,
39 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Even at the point of death I don't beleive any person can honestly say that they have kept these two commandments, and therefore they live in sin. They have rebellied against God and die in sin not having kept these two sins.
To love God with ALL your heart? I don't think so. You have not done that. You have not given God 100% of your heart even to your dying moment. To say otherwise is sin in itself.
To love him with all your soul? No way! No evil thought has ever entered your mind, that has not been repented of? I doubt it. Paul wrote to cast down every imagination and thought that exalts itself against Christ. Have you done that, even til the very dying moment of your life? I don't think so.
And with all your mind? The same thought as expressed above.
Perhaps the soul has more the thought of bringing every emotion under control.

And to love your neighbor as yourself. Not a chance. How much do you care for your body, yourself? How much do you spend on food, clothing, housing? Do you do that for your neighbor, or those in need, on the foreign mission field? I think not! Do you really love your neighbor as your self?

And thus you die in rebellion to these--the two greatest commands of Christ.
No doubt you will die in opposition to the Great Commission and you zeal of carrying it out--going into all the world and discipling all nations. How much effort have you put into that.
Jesus said: A man ought always to pray and not to faint. Likewilse Paul said: Pray without ceasing. Have you kept that command.

And suppose you lie, and die of a heart attack, suddenly without the chance of repentance. Then, according to your own theology you are doomed to Hell. Is this your theology?
Brother Bob?
Digging?__________________
DHK

According to this statement from you a man can live any kind of life filled with sin of all kinds and go to Heaven. I would not let you preach to my children.

You are supposed to preach just the opposite of what you just stated.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Digging:
"He is able to save from the guttermost to the uttermost, but if the heart is hiding sin, if one turns from righteousness to wickedness and abominations, He must remain faithful to His Word. that one will die."

GE:
That one, He came to save - that one's me!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Digging in da Word and Brother Bob, I think you are cherishing cultish notions and inclinations.

 

[Brother Bob]

Digging in da Word and Brother Bob, I think you are cherishing cultish notions and inclinations.

would you care to elaborate and show me the quote, Please?

It is not right to make a blanket statement like that and not say what we misquoted or have spoken wrong.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

That to me is one thing I think Baptist Board may change for the better: If one is not a Baptist, he must participate through the "other denominations" page, and share with any and all strange fellas with whom he scarcely has anything in common. But just because one (like me now) have secondary differences with the Baptists, while in full agreement as to the fundamentals, he cannot participate with those much nearer in maters of faith.
Can this perhaps be addressed, DHK? I would appreciate greatly.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Concerning the ten commandments,

I believe it is possible for man to keep them.

Jesus lived an example for us while He was on this earth. He also commanded us to keep those commandments you quoted. So it must be possible to keep them.

On our own? Of course not! We can only keep the commandments by remaining in Him. 'He that abideth in me...', 'If ye continue'.

We must remember to keep our hearts focused on Him. Wben the tempter comes, we have the power to resist him only if we are first submitted to God.

DHK, your theology causes one to think it is ok to live in sin, after all, no one can keep the commandments. True, Jesus did say no man can keep the law. We cannot. But when we determine to serve only one Master, the Lord Jesus Christ, and continue in Him, living His life, not our own, we truly can keep the commandments.

The Word says 'And you hath He quickened who were dead in trespasses and sins.' Did He give us life to live in sin still?

 

[Claudia_T]

well there ya go, when in doubt just play the ole handy "Cult" card!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

would you care to elaborate and show me the quote, Please?

It is not right to make a blanket statement like that and not say what we misquoted or have spoken wrong.

I base my conclusion on this very ongoing thread wherein you two hold one is lost while being a sinner while one dies.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

GE,

We do not question the Word of God as some do.

 

[Brother Bob]

I base my conclusion on this very ongoing thread wherein you two hold one is lost while being a sinner while one dies.

Jhn 8:21
Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

At least you put me in the same belief with the Lord, which is where I want to be.

Living and dying in sin or not is what it is all about. My job is to teach others to not let the death angel catch them while they still are in their sins, but repent of their sins and be "born again".

I truly think you need to get your message right before delivering it.

 

[DHK]

That to me is one thing I think Baptist Board may change for the better: If one is not a Baptist, he must participate through the "other denominations" page, and share with any and all strange fellas with whom he scarcely has anything in common. But just because one (like me now) have secondary differences with the Baptists, while in full agreement as to the fundamentals, he cannot participate with those much nearer in maters of faith.
Can this perhaps be addressed, DHK? I would appreciate greatly.

Don't worry about it GE. Brother Bob disagrees with me as much as he disagrees with you and I am a Baptist. But in this forum any one, including Baptists, can participate.

 

[DHK]

Concerning the ten commandments,

I believe it is possible for man to keep them.

Jesus lived an example for us while He was on this earth. He also commanded us to keep those commandments you quoted. So it must be possible to keep them.

Read Mark 10.
Jesus demonstrated to the rich young ruler that it was impossible to keep all the commandments. He told him: Thou knowest the commandments...This do and thou shalt live."
The rich young ruler lied to him and replied: "Master all these have I kept from my youth up." It was a lie. He had not, and could not. It is an impossibility. And Jesus proceeded to demonstrate it to him.
He said: "One thing thou lackest, sell all that thou hast, give to the poor, take up thy cross, and follow me."
He was rich. Unwilling to do that, he went away sorrowful. Why? Because he loved his riches more than he loved Christ. His sin, that Christ demonstrated was covetousness. Thou shalt not covet. He coveted his riches more than he desired Christ. His riches became his idol, his god.
"How hardly shall a rich man enter into the kingdom of God."

Of course, we who live in an affluent society commit the same sin (covetousness) most likely every day. (I wish, I want, If only I had....) Those are signs of covetousness--wanting something that you cannot have. It's next of kin is greed, another common sin of the affluent. In many it manifests itself as obesity, wealth, materialism, etc.

Read Matthew chapter 5. Jesus did not believe it was possible for a man to keep the Ten Commandments.
He defined murder as being angry with your brother. hmmm?
He defined adultery as looking on a woman and lusting after her. uh huh?
He defined all sin as originating from the heart. It wasn't the actual sin that counted, it was what was in the heart.
I am sure that we all have broken all the commandments at one time or another.

 

[DHK]

According to this statement from you a man can live any kind of life filled with sin of all kinds and go to Heaven. I would not let you preach to my children.

You are supposed to preach just the opposite of what you just stated.

No, I am supposed to preach the truth of the Word of God, which I do. Instead of making such remarks as above why not answer the Scripture which I posted. But I suppose you can't because it refutes your position.

 

[Claudia_T]

Read Mark 10.
Jesus demonstrated to the rich young ruler that it was impossible to keep all the commandments. He told him: Thou knowest the commandments...This do and thou shalt live."
The rich young ruler lied to him and replied: "Master all these have I kept from my youth up." It was a lie. He had not, and could not. It is an impossibility. And Jesus proceeded to demonstrate it to him.
He said: "One thing thou lackest, sell all that thou hast, give to the poor, take up thy cross, and follow me."
He was rich. Unwilling to do that, he went away sorrowful. Why? Because he loved his riches more than he loved Christ. His sin, that Christ demonstrated was covetousness. Thou shalt not covet. He coveted his riches more than he desired Christ. His riches became his idol, his god.
"How hardly shall a rich man enter into the kingdom of God."

Of course, we who live in an affluent society commit the same sin (covetousness) most likely every day. (I wish, I want, If only I had....) Those are signs of covetousness--wanting something that you cannot have. It's next of kin is greed, another common sin of the affluent. In many it manifests itself as obesity, wealth, materialism, etc.

Read Matthew chapter 5. Jesus did not believe it was possible for a man to keep the Ten Commandments.
He defined murder as being angry with your brother. hmmm?
He defined adultery as looking on a woman and lusting after her. uh huh?
He defined all sin as originating from the heart. It wasn't the actual sin that counted, it was what was in the heart.
I am sure that we all have broken all the commandments at one time or another.

well if you read just before and after Jesus said that about adultery and anger, it hardly seems He is telling us we cant keep the law... just the opposite:

BEFORE:

17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20: For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


AFTER:

23: Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24: Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

 

[DHK]

well if you read just before and after Jesus said that about adultery and anger, it hardly seems He is telling us we cant keep the law... just the opposite:

Aren't you good at taking Scripture out of context.

BEFORE:
17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Fulfillment of Scripture and the preservation of Scripture has absolutely nothing to do with the keeping of the law.

19: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20: For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The righteousness that Christ was speaking of was the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Unless one has the righteousness of Christ which exceeds the self-righteousness of the Pharissees (which came about by keeping the law), you shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Which righteousness do you have?

AFTER:

23: Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24: Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

This again has nothing to do with keeping the law. It has to do with reconciliation with your brother. If you have something against your brother go to him, and make things right. There is nothing here about the Ten Commandments.
Your idea of keeping the law is absurd.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Read Mark 10.
Jesus demonstrated to the rich young ruler that it was impossible to keep all the commandments. He told him: Thou knowest the commandments...This do and thou shalt live."
The rich young ruler lied to him and replied: "Master all these have I kept from my youth up." It was a lie. He had not, and could not. It is an impossibility. And Jesus proceeded to demonstrate it to him.
He said: "One thing thou lackest, sell all that thou hast, give to the poor, take up thy cross, and follow me."
He was rich. Unwilling to do that, he went away sorrowful. Why? Because he loved his riches more than he loved Christ. His sin, that Christ demonstrated was covetousness. Thou shalt not covet. He coveted his riches more than he desired Christ. His riches became his idol, his god.
"How hardly shall a rich man enter into the kingdom of God."

Of course, we who live in an affluent society commit the same sin (covetousness) most likely every day. (I wish, I want, If only I had....) Those are signs of covetousness--wanting something that you cannot have. It's next of kin is greed, another common sin of the affluent. In many it manifests itself as obesity, wealth, materialism, etc.

Read Matthew chapter 5. Jesus did not believe it was possible for a man to keep the Ten Commandments.
He defined murder as being angry with your brother. hmmm?
He defined adultery as looking on a woman and lusting after her. uh huh?
He defined all sin as originating from the heart. It wasn't the actual sin that counted, it was what was in the heart.
I am sure that we all have broken all the commandments at one time or another.

DHK,

Just because the rich man did not love God enough to give up all he had does not in any way imply it is impossible to keep the commandments.

Jesus told us to keep the commandments. Must be possible to keep them.