Not well with the soul

[agedman]

i have offered on the BB many commentaries concerning worship.

This one may cause most folks to cringe.

I firmly consider all that done in a worship service must be found as Scripturally approved. That includes the prayers, the readings, the announcements, the offerings, the music, the sermon, ....

One issue that must be attended is the presence of lack of separation from the ungodly to embrace what is Godly.

Is it appropriate to use the ungodly in delivering worship to the Holiest?

God did not tolerate it in the temple/tabernacle, yet it is more and more often excused in the church worship!

Would your assembly gleefully participate and embrace the words from a heretic?

Some weep singing the words of “It is Well with My Soul” and consider it righteousness.

One should certainly weep, but not in joy but sorrow that they sing the words written by a heretic!

Think I write of that which I have know knowledge?

From: https://cprc.co.uk/articles/spafford/

Horatio Spafford was a rabid Arminian and a universalist, who believed in the salvation of Satan and purgatory (like Roman Catholicism). The hymn writer was also a false prophet, a charismatic and a cult leader. The heretical teaching and utopian community of the “Branch” and his “Bride” were not in the way of Christ’s peace. It was not well with his soul. Surely, it is far better to sing the 150 inspired Psalms written by true prophets of Jesus Christ, the Branch (Isa. 11:1; Jer. 23:5; 33:15; Zech. 3:8; 6:12), for His beloved bride, the church (Eph. 5:23-32).

​

Next time you and the assembly engage in worship, engage what the Scriptures direct should be done with a “sound mind” and examine if you are using materials from a heretical source.

Horacio and Anna Stafford were heretics. Just how well is your soul?

 

[KenH]

My favorite recording of this hymn, by the Bluegrass Worship Band:

 

[Reynolds]

i have offered on the BB many commentaries concerning worship.

This one may cause most folks to cringe.

I firmly consider all that done in a worship service must be found as Scripturally approved. That includes the prayers, the readings, the announcements, the offerings, the music, the sermon, ....

One issue that must be attended is the presence of lack of separation from the ungodly to embrace what is Godly.

Is it appropriate to use the ungodly in delivering worship to the Holiest?

God did not tolerate it in the temple/tabernacle, yet it is more and more often excused in the church worship!

Would your assembly gleefully participate and embrace the words from a heretic?

Some weep singing the words of “It is Well with My Soul” and consider it righteousness.

One should certainly weep, but not in joy but sorrow that they sing the words written by a heretic!

Think I write of that which I have know knowledge?

From: Horatio Spafford: Not Well With His Soul – CPRC

Horatio Spafford was a rabid Arminian and a universalist, who believed in the salvation of Satan and purgatory (like Roman Catholicism). The hymn writer was also a false prophet, a charismatic and a cult leader. The heretical teaching and utopian community of the “Branch” and his “Bride” were not in the way of Christ’s peace. It was not well with his soul. Surely, it is far better to sing the 150 inspired Psalms written by true prophets of Jesus Christ, the Branch (Isa. 11:1; Jer. 23:5; 33:15; Zech. 3:8; 6:12), for His beloved bride, the church (Eph. 5:23-32).

​

Next time you and the assembly engage in worship, engage what the Scriptures direct should be done with a “sound mind” and examine if you are using materials from a heretical source.

Horacio and Anna Stafford were heretics. Just how well is your soul?

As a pastor I know says "And that sir is why you have no friends."

 

[Jerome]

Dr. John MacArthur leading the singing of this hymn (It Is Well With My Soul):

 

[Jerome]

Crossway Books, 9Marks Series, It is Well, by Mark Dever and Michael Lawrence

Mark Dever:
"In our congregation...the songs and hymns that we sing that remind us of God's wrath and Christ's bearing it for us stir up solemn joy in the congregation, which then climaxes in wonder and awe. You can hear it and see it and feel it. This is never truer than when we sing the hymn 'It Is Well with My Soul'. I wish you could hear the church sing the stanza, 'My sin, not in part, but the whole, is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more, praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul'. Our voices join in ecstasy, and we stand amazed at our inclusion, stunned and relishing God’s costly, gracious mercy toward us in Christ."

Read the lyrics of the hymn while Dever's congregation (Capitol Hill Baptist, Washington, DC) sings it:

 

[Salty]

i have offered on the BB many commentaries concerning worship.

This one may cause most folks to cringe.

I firmly consider all that done in a worship service must be found as Scripturally approved. That includes the prayers, the readings, the announcements, the offerings, the music, the sermon, ....

I respectfully disagree - I am of the opposite thinking - that is - unless prohibited by Scripture - we are free to worship as we see fit.

With your theory - we should not have musical instruments, Sunday School, ect

One issue that must be attended is the presence of lack of separation from the ungodly to embrace what is Godly.

Is it appropriate to use the ungodly in delivering worship to the Holiest?

No, it is not!

 

[agedman]

Am I to assume the responding posters actually read the link?

Would they allow fellowship with and publish the writings of one who:
.... read the well documented article.....

 

[canadyjd]

Am I to assume the responding posters actually read the link?

Would they allow fellowship with and publish the writings of one who:
.... read the well documented article.....

The Apostle Paul quoted pagan philosophers, Jewish commentators, local idioms and others to make Holy Spirit inspired scripture that are used in worship services all the time.

I understand the desire to use appropriate hymns in worship services. Perhaps this is a “meat sacrificed to idols” issue. Don’t over think, but be convinced in your own mind.

There was a man in a church I attended many years ago that sincerely believed there were only 20-25 hymns that were worthy to be sung in church. Quite frankly, he never seemed to be happy or joyful in worship.

peace to you

 

[InTheLight]

Horatio Spafford was a rabid Arminian

What are the hallmarks of a "rabid Arminian?"

Do they go around hypnotizing people to pray the sinner's prayer?

At Thanksgiving do they have a table call? "I want you to get up out of your chairs, lift yourself from your sofa. Come forward to the dinner table. All who are hungry will be fed; all who thirst will be quenched. If you have friends, they'll wait."

 

[Calminian]

What are the hallmarks of a "rabid Arminian?"

Do they go around hypnotizing people to pray the sinner's prayer?..."

Oh they're a scary bunch. Foam at the mouth while repeating "freewill, freewill, freewill...." all day long.

But that's a rare sect.

 

[Calminian]

i have offered on the BB many commentaries concerning worship.

This one may cause most folks to cringe.

I firmly consider all that done in a worship service must be found as Scripturally approved. That includes the prayers, the readings, the announcements, the offerings, the music, the sermon, ....

One issue that must be attended is the presence of lack of separation from the ungodly to embrace what is Godly.

Is it appropriate to use the ungodly in delivering worship to the Holiest?

God did not tolerate it in the temple/tabernacle, yet it is more and more often excused in the church worship!

Would your assembly gleefully participate and embrace the words from a heretic?

Some weep singing the words of “It is Well with My Soul” and consider it righteousness.

One should certainly weep, but not in joy but sorrow that they sing the words written by a heretic!

Think I write of that which I have know knowledge?

From: Horatio Spafford: Not Well With His Soul – CPRC

Horatio Spafford was a rabid Arminian and a universalist, who believed in the salvation of Satan and purgatory (like Roman Catholicism). The hymn writer was also a false prophet, a charismatic and a cult leader. The heretical teaching and utopian community of the “Branch” and his “Bride” were not in the way of Christ’s peace. It was not well with his soul. Surely, it is far better to sing the 150 inspired Psalms written by true prophets of Jesus Christ, the Branch (Isa. 11:1; Jer. 23:5; 33:15; Zech. 3:8; 6:12), for His beloved bride, the church (Eph. 5:23-32).

​

Next time you and the assembly engage in worship, engage what the Scriptures direct should be done with a “sound mind” and examine if you are using materials from a heretical source.

Horacio and Anna Stafford were heretics. Just how well is your soul?

This is a tough one for me. There is a sense in which I agree that music from modern heretics should be avoided, even if it is sound and contains no theoretically errors. For it may seem like an endorsement and tempt young and weaker Christians to follow after these heretics.

Should this also extent to historical hymns who's writer went apostate? That one is even tougher. I would probably extend more grace in that situation, as there's less danger to stumble the weak.

 

[Reynolds]

Am I to assume the responding posters actually read the link?

Would they allow fellowship with and publish the writings of one who:
.... read the well documented article.....

I have read enough of it. I quit reading the trash at "rabid Arminian". I dont care who wrote the hymn. Is there anything un Scriptural about the Hymn?

 

[alexander284]

If you discovered the owner of the building where your church meets gives money to Planned Parenthood, would you stop attending that church?

 

[Rob_BW]

If you discovered the owner of the building where your church meets gives money to Planned Parenthood, would you stop attending that church?

Ooh, divestment. That's an easy scenario, though. What about serving soft drinks from companies that give money to LGBT advancement groups?

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

...
I firmly consider all that done in a worship service must be found as Scripturally approved. That includes the prayers, the readings, the announcements, the offerings, the music, the sermon, ....

One issue that must be attended is the presence of lack of separation from the ungodly to embrace what is Godly. Is it appropriate to use the ungodly in delivering worship to the Holiest? ...

What of Balaam's pronouncements over the Israelites? Were they any less blessings because of his greed and treachery? And Caiaphas's prophecy as high priest? Was it any less true because that unbeliever was intent on murdering God's Son?

Perhaps those who have true spiritual discernment should be in charge of choosing verses and leading worship. Otherwise we risk applying whatever is sung in an ungodly way. Even Scripture can be misappropriated and misapplied. "The Bible tells me so."

 

[OnlyaSinner]

This is a tough one for me. There is a sense in which I agree that music from modern heretics should be avoided, even if it is sound and contains no theoretically errors. For it may seem like an endorsement and tempt young and weaker Christians to follow after these heretics.

Should this also extent to historical hymns who's writer went apostate? That one is even tougher. I would probably extend more grace in that situation, as there's less danger to stumble the weak.

This mirrors my view of music. If a current CCM musician with a notoriously unbiblical lifestyle produced a song that was scripturally sound and musically appropriate, I would not wish to sing it in a worship service. However, many decades of separation changes things IMO. Mozart was probably an unbeliever (only he and God know for sure) and had a lifestyle not in accord with scripture (though not the caricature of Amadeus) but 200+ years later I see no problems in enjoying his music. I'd not insist on playing it in the presence of a fellow believer who would be offended by it, however. Even J.S. Bach, whose dedication to his Savoir seemed very genuine, wrote a full Roman Catholic mass, for reasons known perhaps only by him and God. Nevertheless, that piece is held by some knowledgeable musicians to be the greatest work of music ever composed.

A phrase attributed to the Puritans says, "God can use a crooked stick to make a straight line." I'd apply that to "It Is Well With My Soul" and repeat Reynold's question in #12.

 

[Salty]

Back in the day, the music director of our radio station refused to allow the songs of a certain female artists
to air because her recent actions was very un-christian. (I forget who that was - this was about 1990 {?} )

 

[agedman]

The Apostle Paul quoted pagan philosophers, Jewish commentators, local idioms and others to make Holy Spirit inspired scripture that are used in worship services all the time.

I understand the desire to use appropriate hymns in worship services. Perhaps this is a “meat sacrificed to idols” issue. Don’t over think, but be convinced in your own mind.

There was a man in a church I attended many years ago that sincerely believed there were only 20-25 hymns that were worthy to be sung in church. Quite frankly, he never seemed to be happy or joyful in worship.

peace to you

I would like for you to find evidence that Paul ever quoted any heathen in a worship service.

There is evidence he did so in out door preaching as an evangelist, as he wrote personal letters, but I have yet to find such statements n a worship service.

I don’t know the Scriptures ever record a worship service other than one, and even then it was ended up a healing service when Paul put a young man to sleep by drowning on and on for hours.

So, produce something of evidence.

As far as my own thinking, it isn’t a “meet sacrificed to idol” issue.

One is to worship in spirit and truth.

One cannot expect the spirit to endorse that which derives from McLean heart and unclean living.

Spafford, IF you actually read the documentation, was anything but pure in any area of his character.

 

[Calminian]

I would like for you to find evidence that Paul ever quoted any heathen in a worship service.

There is evidence he did so in out door preaching as an evangelist,...

This is a really strange line of argumentation.

 

[agedman]

This mirrors my view of music. If a current CCM musician with a notoriously unbiblical lifestyle produced a song that was scripturally sound and musically appropriate, I would not wish to sing it in a worship service. However, many decades of separation changes things IMO. Mozart was probably an unbeliever (only he and God know for sure) and had a lifestyle not in accord with scripture (though not the caricature of Amadeus) but 200+ years later I see no problems in enjoying his music. I'd not insist on playing it in the presence of a fellow believer who would be offended by it, however. Even J.S. Bach, whose dedication to his Savoir seemed very genuine, wrote a full Roman Catholic mass, for reasons known perhaps only by him and God. Nevertheless, that piece is held by some knowledgeable musicians to be the greatest work of music ever composed.

A phrase attributed to the Puritans says, "God can use a crooked stick to make a straight line." I'd apply that to "It Is Well With My Soul" and repeat Reynold's question in #12.

Some might think offering God a crooked stick in worship is proper.

But, if God excepted ONLY that which was the very first and best throughout the centuries, why do folks think He will put up with less in these modern times?

Spafford was a heretic. He wasn’t a crooked stick. He was a snake!