Nursing Mothers

[abcgrad94]

Just curious, are you using Biblical wisdom here or your own? How does this mesh with what the Holy Spirit through Paul has taught? If we know an avoidable action causes another to lust, are we to stand on our rights? If so, is the person emphasizing their own liberty, over the concerns of sin (i.e. your example of lust) within the fellowship really not going to be held to account? Again, is this what the Scripture says?

Scripture says if your eye offends you, pluck it out!

So, should we stop passing the offering plate because someone might be tempted to steal? Who is the one sinning, the usher passing the offering plate or the person who covets the money?

If one has a problem with overeating, are the church ladies going to be held accountable for cooking them a pot luck?

Or what about the men who have a "thing" about long hair? Should all the ladies go get short haircuts so he won't lust?

We have to draw a line somewhere.

 

[menageriekeeper]

<sarcasm> Oh what a fun thread! <sarcasm>

Yes Hamel, there are a few subjects about which I am passionate. This is one of them.

Honestly, if my health care provider had an employee who had a problem with women breastfeeding in public, I'd expect them to fire the guy and find someone who could control the direction of his thoughts. Better yet, I'd expect a Christian man who found he couldn't control his thoughts when faced with a room full of newborns and breastfeeding moms to REMOVE HIMSELF from that source of employment and find something else to make a living at. A Christian has no business being in a business that might cause him to sin!

Who brought up Paul? Does Paul have greater authority than Christ? Of course not. That must mean that there is middle ground between causing someone to fall from the faith and that someone being responsible for his own thoughts. You take responsibility for your thoughts and I'll be sure to teach my daughters how to breastfeed discretely. Its an easy thing to do.

 

[abcgrad94]

Me personally, a woman breast-feeding doesn't cause feelings of lust. And I can certainly tell which men are straining to get an eyeful, and say something to them about it. BUT--If we know something causes a problem, should we do it?

You bring up a good point, Don, "IF we KNOW something causes a problem."

If a man has a problem with this, he has a few choices:
1. He can avert his eyes and pray God helps him not to lust.
2. He can humbly admit HE has a problem in this area and lovingly make a request to the pastor and/or the husband of the nursing mothers.
3. He can blame the women for for not reading the sin in his mind and demand they follow man-made rules for his benefit.

 

[Aaron]

Do you know that it's actually a more recent thing that women have had to be completely covered or leave the room to breastfeed? Back before bottles, it was just a fact of life and while women would not dare uncover their ankle, uncovering a breast to feed a child was normal - and there were no nursing clothing available. It was "unbutton the front of your dress, unbutton your chemise and start nursing". I just find that fascinating. Now when we see women in bathing suits or tops barely covering their breasts, we get upset when we see breasts being used for what they were created for. Why is that?

First, I think your history is a comlete fabrication. Second, a woman's breats are not only for feeding children, they're also ornamental and made to be appealing, especially to men.

 

[Aaron]

I guess I need to step out of this debate - I have never given discreet breast feeding in public a second thought. It is just a part of life. I don't understand the need to leave a room just because a baby is hungry.

The issue is breastfeeding during the worship service.

What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? —Paul

 

[annsni]

First, I think your history is a comlete fabrication.

No, I'm sorry, it is not.

Second, a woman's breats are not only for feeding children, they're also ornamental and made to be appealing, especially to men.

If that is so, why do those cultures that have women go topless do not have the issues we have? I do believe God's perfect plan was for breasts to feed children. I do not believe that anything on our body is "ornamental". That's just weird.

 

[Aaron]

Oral sex is mentioned in SoS . . .

THAT's a new one.

 

[annsni]

The issue is breastfeeding during the worship service.

What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? —Paul

Yet when we are at church for many hours, how do we feed our children in our home? Some babies, especially newborns, need to be fed every hour or two. In the beginning of the nursing relationship, it is not good for mom to pump and bottlefeed because that can cause a decrease in supply. Not to mention it is extremely difficult for some to do so and it is ridiculous if you have the source there as well. It is MUCH less intrusive, much less distracting and much simpler for mama to just pull her shirt up a bit, unclip her bra and latch baby on while she is sitting beside her husband in church than for her to grab the diaper bag, grab the baby set, take a screaming baby, be dripping all down her shirt and run down the aisle of church to take care of things.

Oh and guess what? In all of my 5 years of breastfeeding, not once did anyone see anything that they shouldn't except the lactation consultant, the pediatrician, my gynecologist and my husband. That's it. I nursed in front of people who would have possibly been horrified if they knew what I was doing - but they never knew. They just thought I was making it dark for the baby to sleep! Yep. I was THAT good.

 

[Aaron]

No, I'm sorry, it is not.

Is too.

If that is so, why do those cultures that have women go topless do not have the issues we have?

What issues? You think there are cultures where men don't lust after womens' breasts?

I do believe God's perfect plan was for breasts to feed children. I do not believe that anything on our body is "ornamental". That's just weird.

So, it's weird for a man to think a woman's breasts are beautiful, attractive, and something he would yearn to press? What other satisfaction is a young husband to find in the breasts of the wife of his youth? Prov. 5:19

 

[Aaron]

Yet when we are at church for many hours, how do we feed our children in our home? Some babies, especially newborns, need to be fed every hour or two. In the beginning of the nursing relationship, it is not good for mom to pump and bottlefeed because that can cause a decrease in supply. Not to mention it is extremely difficult for some to do so and it is ridiculous if you have the source there as well. It is MUCH less intrusive, much less distracting and much simpler for mama to just pull her shirt up a bit, unclip her bra and latch baby on while she is sitting beside her husband in church than for her to grab the diaper bag, grab the baby set, take a screaming baby, be dripping all down her shirt and run down the aisle of church to take care of things.

Women can stay at home with their newborns.

Oh and guess what? In all of my 5 years of breastfeeding, not once did anyone see anything that they shouldn't except the lactation consultant, the pediatrician, my gynecologist and my husband. That's it. I nursed in front of people who would have possibly been horrified if they knew what I was doing - but they never knew. They just thought I was making it dark for the baby to sleep! Yep. I was THAT good.

That good or that oppressed?

 

[annsni]

Women can stay at home with their newborns.

Thank you for your support of the spiritual growth of new moms.

That good or that oppressed?

That good.

 

[Don]

You bring up a good point, Don, "IF we KNOW something causes a problem."

If a man has a problem with this, he has a few choices:
1. He can avert his eyes and pray God helps him not to lust.
2. He can humbly admit HE has a problem in this area and lovingly make a request to the pastor and/or the husband of the nursing mothers.
3. He can blame the women for for not reading the sin in his mind and demand they follow man-made rules for his benefit.

And still, you don't address the scriptural rules for something like this.

Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

Followed by Romans 15:1-2 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.

It's easy to say "he has the problem; he should do something about it." What I'm seeing is that it's much harder to say "I'm doing something that causes a weaker brother/sister to stumble or be offended; I should do something about it." Instead, I see Christians who say, "well, I may be doing something that causes him/her to stumble or be offended, but that's their problem; they should do something about it."

Ladies, just pull the blanket over your shoulder, and I'll respect your motherhood. My weaker brothers (including you, Aaron), I'll ask you to avert your eyes or go somewhere else. But if there's a bunch of weaker guys -- well, ladies, I'm gonna ask you to go somewhere else.

 

[annsni]

And still, you don't address the scriptural rules for something like this.

Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

Followed by Romans 15:1-2 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.

It's easy to say "he has the problem; he should do something about it." What I'm seeing is that it's much harder to say "I'm doing something that causes a weaker brother/sister to stumble or be offended; I should do something about it." Instead, I see Christians who say, "well, I may be doing something that causes him/her to stumble or be offended, but that's their problem; they should do something about it."

Ladies, just pull the blanket over your shoulder, and I'll respect your motherhood. My weaker brothers (including you, Aaron), I'll ask you to avert your eyes or go somewhere else. But if there's a bunch of weaker guys -- well, ladies, I'm gonna ask you to go somewhere else.

But we're talking nursing in church. Who is looking around? If I'm sitting in a pew in the back row on the side of the church with my husband sitting next to me, who's watching - and why are they watching AND getting offended? The only ones who should see me would be the pastor (if he can really focus that far), the ushers (if they happen to be coming at that particular time) and maybe the organist/music team (again, if they can see that far). In the 5 years I nursed my babies, no one ever knew I nursed in church. No one. Even my pastor and I know that because we talked about it later. He was shocked to find out!

 

[Crucified in Christ]

Scripture says if your eye offends you, pluck it out!

So, should we stop passing the offering plate because someone might be tempted to steal? Who is the one sinning, the usher passing the offering plate or the person who covets the money?

If one has a problem with overeating, are the church ladies going to be held accountable for cooking them a pot luck?

Or what about the men who have a "thing" about long hair? Should all the ladies go get short haircuts so he won't lust?

We have to draw a line somewhere.

abc- You can draw up all of the examples that you want to attempt to relieve yourself of what the Scriptures say, but it doesn't change anything. The Scriptures make it clear that we have a duty not to stand on rights where the weaknesses of others might be at risk. To have an attitude that it is not our concern is as far from what Paul is saying as one can get.

I am not going to continue on this because I am less interested in the specific application here than I am of the principle. Regardless of where we stand on this issue, it seems to me that the one argument the Scriptures doesn't allow is "if it causes someone to stumble that's on them...not on me".

 

[Amy.G]

A question to the anti public breast feeding posters....have you ever spoken to the husbands of these ladies that you are protesting? Do they bear any responsibility?

 

[DHK]

The issue is breastfeeding during the worship service.

What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? —Paul

:laugh: Now that is funny!

How many other verses can you find to take out of context? Are you the master of that art?

 

[Don]

But we're talking nursing in church. Who is looking around? If I'm sitting in a pew in the back row on the side of the church with my husband sitting next to me, who's watching - and why are they watching AND getting offended? The only ones who should see me would be the pastor (if he can really focus that far), the ushers (if they happen to be coming at that particular time) and maybe the organist/music team (again, if they can see that far). In the 5 years I nursed my babies, no one ever knew I nursed in church. No one. Even my pastor and I know that because we talked about it later. He was shocked to find out!

So none of this applies to you, right?

The question from the OP was what do we think about it. I happen to think that it's fine...until someone expresses that they're offended by it. Then you have to answer: are you going to stand by your "rights" and liberty in Christ; or are you going to have some consideration for your weaker brethren?

 

[annsni]

Once again, for those who feel that a woman should not breastfeed in public because men might stumble, I ask this question: Should I cut my hair because it DOES cause a man that I know to stumble? It is a fact. I know for a fact that long hair causes him to stumble. I have long hair. Shall I cut it so that I will no longer make him stumble?

 

[Don]

A question to the anti public breast feeding posters....have you ever spoken to the husbands of these ladies that you are protesting? Do they bear any responsibility?

Don't consider myself "anti-public breast feeding"...but yes, the husbands bear some responsibility. If I thought something was improper, I'd take it to the husband. I don't think it's my right or responsibility, or place, to go to another man's wife.

 

[Don]

Once again, for those who feel that a woman should not breastfeed in public because men might stumble, I ask this question: Should I cut my hair because it DOES cause a man that I know to stumble? It is a fact. I know for a fact that long hair causes him to stumble. I have long hair. Shall I cut it so that I will no longer make him stumble?

Have you tried wearing a hat?

-----
Edited to add: Seriously, though, there are some things that you can't do anything about. Hair, feet, etc. The things we can do something about (suits, breast-feeding, drinking, watching TV (that one's for some of my more legalistic friends)), we should consider. For example, I turn off the TV when those legalistic friends are over.