In a theology that holds that humans can still make their decision for Jesus apart from the will of God first electing them unto eternal life.
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Nuts For Arminians To Crack
- Thread starter tyndale1946
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Does the Father draw all sinners than to Jesus for salvation?
NO!
Does God have the Sovereign right to save who he will?... Will not the God of all creation do right?... Is Salvation in the sinners hands or Gods?... Scripture says he will call and I will answer, so if that be the case, God has already prepared the heart for me to respond and if I don't respond then isn't it also a fact that God was never there?... Case in point the potters house... Brother Glen
Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
I agree, was seeing how our more Arminian based friends would reply!NO!
Does God have the Sovereign right to save who he will?... Will not the God of all creation do right?... Is Salvation in the sinners hands or Gods?... Scripture says he will call and I will answer, so if that be the case, God has already prepared the heart for me to respond and if I don't respond then isn't it also a fact that God was never there?... Case in point the potters house... Brother Glen
Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
I am not Arminian or Calvinist, but a simple Bible-believer. Here are some questions for you and your friends on BB
1. Does God love all sinners?
2. Does God desire the salvation of all sinners?
3. Is God willing that any sinner go into eternal damnation and perish?
4. Does God preordain any person to eternal punishment?
5. In the OT Israel were the "elect" of God, as a nation, yet there are non-elect people who were saved, like Rahab, and the people of Nineveh. Is this the same for post-cross times?
6. Why do the lost end up in hell?
7. Does the Bible teach that the Holy Spirit is convicting all sinners of their sins?
8. The Bible uses terms like, "ransomed" (1 Timothy 2:6); "bought" (2 Peter 2:1) and "sin-offering/covering" (1 John 2:2), for the entire human race. In what way are these used for the "non-elect"?
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
so whoever said that salvation was the "work of man"?
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
NO!
Does God have the Sovereign right to save who he will?... Will not the God of all creation do right?... Is Salvation in the sinners hands or Gods?... Scripture says he will call and I will answer, so if that be the case, God has already prepared the heart for me to respond and if I don't respond then isn't it also a fact that God was never there?... Case in point the potters house... Brother Glen
Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
care you expand on verse 22?. If these are the "non-elect", who before the foundation are going to hell, why would God "endure with much longsuffering" with them? Why waste any time on these who by your own theology, are hell-bound from eternity past, since all decisions for the destinations of the entire human race, was decided before the world began, as some would have us believe? Calvinists/Reformed, and good at one thing, which is to read into Scripture that which is NOT THERE!
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
great. I know of no truly born-again believer, who would do. Salvation from start to finish, is the work of the Triune God.
You did not just try to use that verse to say that belief is something God gives you, please tell me that is not what you were doing with that verse.
glad4mercy
Active Member
I answered this in the Semi Pelagian thread. Yes, God draws all men, but He does not draw all men at all times.
glad4mercy
Active Member
Who believes that?
glad4mercy
Active Member
YEP, not sealed with the Spirit till AFTER you believe.
glad4mercy
Active Member
Does God extend saving grace towards all sinners? YES
....Equally? Well, it would be more equal if Christians got off their easy chair and did what they are supposed to do, wouldn't it?
Has any man the power to refuse to come to Christ when the Father draws him?... Brother Glen
glad4mercy
Active Member
Has any man the power to refuse to come to Christ when the Father draws him?... Brother Glen
Romans 2:4;
John 5:19 with John 12:32
Well that is a nice thought humanly speaking but I guess he forgot these fellas... Some were ordained and others were appointed... Did they ordain and appoint themselves?... Brother Glen
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
The next verse separates the ALL MEN from all the other men
2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
God called you out of darkness into his marvelous light, you didn't decide to walk out on your own... Brother Glen
That doesn't make sense. You might need to go back and reread what I posted.
glad4mercy
Active Member
Well that is a nice thought humanly speaking but I guess he forgot these fellas... Some were ordained and others were appointed... Did they ordain and appoint themselves?... Brother Glen
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
The next verse separates the ALL MEN from all the other men
2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
God called you out of darkness into his marvelous light, you didn't decide to walk out on your own... Brother Glen
Jude 4- The word translated "ordain" is actually a perfect passive participle of PROGRAPHO "I write before" . IN other words, "...who were of old WRITTEN ABOUT"
PRO is before and grapho is "I write".
1 Peter 2 :7- 8- Judicial hardening of unbelievers. Verses 9-10 God mercies believers.
God is not willing that any should perish, that all come to repentance, that all should be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth...but He resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. In other words, I can in pride resist God's grace, then He will resist me, and my condemnation increases. Or I can humbly receive God's Grace, AND HE WILL GIVE ME MORE GRACE.
To them that has shall more be given, but to him who doesnt have, even what he has will be taken away from him.
I know Calvinists don't like the idea of "once grace is offered, we can receive or resist" but it's what the Bible teaches.
We're not talking about earning or working for salvation, but rather about merely receiving a FREE, UNDESERVED, UNMERITED, UNSOLICITED gift!!! God is found by them who did not seek Him. I am one of those, praise the LORD!
quote- God called you out of darkness into his marvelous light, you didn't decide to walk out on your own... Brother Glen
ABSOLUTELY AGREE that I did not decide on my own. We believe that salvation is by Grace and by God alone!
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