Obama’s leap to socialism

[LeBuick]

Look at the mess this country got in when the government didn't control the banks and major financial institutions.

If socialism is bad and Canada is good (which it is) then what is so bad about socialism? What are Americans afraid of?

The word apparently because so far that's all the socialism we've seen.

 

[LeBuick]

I hope this is not true. If so, then those "Christians" hate me, my wife, most of her family and the many other Christian Democrats in this country. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes on the Day of the Lord.

According to most here, one can't be a Christian and a Democrat at the same time. I've yet to find that page in my Bible but they swear it's there.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Look at the mess this country got in when the government didn't control the banks and major financial institutions.

If socialism is bad and Canada is good (which it is) then what is so bad about socialism? What are Americans afraid of?

America was not founded to be a socialist state. It was founded on biblical principles of self-responsibility.

And I am tired of the lie that unregulated banks caused this problem. This problem is the direct result of construction union pressure, via lobbyists, to build homes for people they could not afford. Government intrusion into the private sector is what has caused this, and it cannot fix it.

BTW, which is the more biblical government ? And what verses would you use to back up your view ?

 

[Surfer Joe]

I hope this is not true. If so, then those "Christians" hate me, my wife, most of her family and the many other Christian Democrats in this country.

Since the main part of party politics is hating the opposition party, it's only the -40+ % that don't.



Are they too small or too large?

Party politics has no place in the Body of Christ. Politics is fine but we are Christians, whether we are Republicans or Democrats. Anyone who suggests otherwise has the right to be wrong.

Your question is silly. I don't think anyone who condemns fellow Christians for their politics is going to be particularly happy to explain themselves to the Lord why they had the nerve to say others weren't Christians because they differed when it came to politics. Do you?

 

[Surfer Joe]

According to most here, one can't be a Christian and a Democrat at the same time. I've yet to find that page in my Bible but they swear it's there.

Still haven't found it myself.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Originally Posted by LeBuick
According to most here, one can't be a Christian and a Democrat at the same time. I've yet to find that page in my Bible but they swear it's there.

Who, and where ? Who is "most on here". Where is this said ?

This is an outright misrepresentation, and you should retract it. Purposeful dishonesty is not a trait that preachers, or any Christians should display.

Shame on you, LB.

 

[JustChristian]

America was not founded to be a socialist state. It was founded on biblical principles of self-responsibility.

And I am tired of the lie that unregulated banks caused this problem. This problem is the direct result of construction union pressure, via lobbyists, to build homes for people they could not afford. Government intrusion into the private sector is what has caused this, and it cannot fix it.

BTW, which is the more biblical government ? And what verses would you use to back up your view ?

I'm not aware of the Bible supporting one form of government over another. If anything, it seems that having a king was accepted. According to Christ, that isn't important. What's important is the Kingdom of Gog and our relationship to Jesus.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

That's because you don't read it.

What was God's warning to Israel, when they demanded a King ?

Ooops. I forgot how much you hate responding to challenges.

 

[JustChristian]

That's because you don't read it.

What was God's warning to Israel, when they demanded a King ?

Ooops. I forgot how much you hate responding to challenges.

On what basis do you say that I don't read the Bible. I certainly post more scripture here in support of my views than you do. Of course, that's easy because you never post scripture.

 

[LeBuick]

This is an outright misrepresentation, and you should retract it. Purposeful dishonesty is not a trait that preachers, or any Christians should display.

Shame on you, LB.

Like saying anyone who voted for Obama is an abortionist? Or my personal favorite, how can one be a Christian and vote for Obama? How about when the Democratic candidate is associated with everything evil in this world to include the AC? None of this is in my Bible.

The only dishonesty here Bro. Curtis is anyone who won't own up to making these statements in my defense.

This post is not directed at you or any particular person on the board, it is simply to say I have not been dishonest and have nothing to retract.

 

[Surfer Joe]

America was not founded to be a socialist state. It was founded on biblical principles of self-responsibility.

And I am tired of the lie that unregulated banks caused this problem. This problem is the direct result of construction union pressure, via lobbyists, to build homes for people they could not afford. Government intrusion into the private sector is what has caused this, and it cannot fix it.

BTW, which is the more biblical government ? And what verses would you use to back up your view ?

You mean you agree with me that America wasn't formed to be a theocratic state where Christians could legislate Christianity on everyone? Great!:1_grouphug: You're right, self responsibility is a good thing. Too bad the banks and financial institutions didn't have any eh? Because they DID cause it. Nobody held a gun to their heads to give those loans.

If government "intrusion" into the private sector caused it, why didn't it happen years ago in Canada? Why is Canada in better shape than the United States even now? According to the United States Constitution the government has the right to regulate commerce.

Which is the more biblical government? Well, I don't know. The Bible does mention a fairly repressive government known as the Roman Empire. So I guess that's more biblical. God instructs Joseph in Genesis to store enough food for the people to last through a seven year famine. How dare the government interfere in the private sector right?

So now you're against unions too? :BangHead:

 

[Bro. Curtis]

You mean you agree with me that America wasn't formed to be a theocratic state where Christians could legislate Christianity on everyone? Great!:1_grouphug: You're right, self responsibility is a good thing. Too bad the banks and financial institutions didn't have any eh? Because they DID cause it. Nobody held a gun to their heads to give those loans.

Not quite accurate. The banks WERE told to give those loans, by both previous administrations. Look it up.

If government "intrusion" into the private sector caused it, why didn't it happen years ago in Canada? Why is Canada in better shape than the United States even now? According to the United States Constitution the government has the right to regulate commerce.

Canada being in better shape is opinion, unprovable. And nowhere in the constitution is government given the ability to regulate a private business. Unles you can show it to me.

Which is the more biblical government? Well, I don't know. The Bible does mention a fairly repressive government known as the Roman Empire. So I guess that's more biblical. God instructs Joseph in Genesis to store enough food for the people to last through a seven year famine. How dare the government interfere in the private sector right?

What kind of government did God give the people of Israel ? How about that parable of the talents ? Think that applies to personal responsibility, or is that just a fable, y'know ?

So now you're against unions too? :BangHead:

Yeah. I hate them. Maybe they served a purpose at one time, but they now only serve powerful executives.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Lebuick, you said people have said Democrats cannot be Christians. So you must have the opinion that it's OK to lie if you feel someone else has ?

Glad yer not my pastor.

 

[Surfer Joe]

You mean you agree with me that America wasn't formed to be a theocratic state where Christians could legislate Christianity on everyone? Great!:1_grouphug: You're right, self responsibility is a good thing. Too bad the banks and financial institutions didn't have any eh? Because they DID cause it. Nobody held a gun to their heads to give those loans.[\quote]

Not quite accurate. The banks WERE told to give those loans, by both previous administrations. Look it up.

Ok...so a Republican government told them to do it. It is my opinion that what really caused this economic mess was greedy executives (probably Republicans) drove gas prices through the roof last summer that people could no longer afford their homes. So you'd rather have no regulation over any industry whatsoever? You want more and more 'pandemics'?[/endquote]


Canada being in better shape is opinion, unprovable. And nowhere in the constitution is government given the ability to regulate a private business. Unles you can show it to me.

No, that's not the case. Financial institutions and some other industries are regulated by the government and were thus able to avoid these problems for the most part. Canada is having some problems right now but nowhere near what the U.S. is having. Canada has a better health care system (must be cuz of them nasty socialists who implemented it) than the U.S. can ever dream of having at least for a while. The Constitution gives the federal government the right to regulate commerce. Unless you can show it to me that I'm wrong. Again, government regulates all kinds of private businesses.[/endquote]



What kind of government did God give the people of Israel ? How about that parable of the talents ? Think that applies to personal responsibility, or is that just a fable, y'know ?

What I do not know is where I said the parable of the talents was a fable. Last I checked it had to do with spiritual gifts, etc. We will answer for what we did with the gifts we had. I don't think it matters what kind of government God gave to Israel because this is not Israel, nor was it ever meant to be. Anyone who thinks the United States is a pseudo-Israel is hugely mistaken.[/endquote]

Yeah. I hate them. Maybe they served a purpose at one time, but they now only serve powerful executives.

Hate them if you want. My dad's union job was God's way of putting food on our table and I am not going to fault him. And my dad was not a powerful executive.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

On what basis do you say that I don't read the Bible. I certainly post more scripture here in support of my views than you do. Of course, that's easy because you never post scripture.

Then post some. Answer my challenge, for once. I say God advocates personal responsibility, not a welfare state, and use Israel as a biblical example.

What do you say ? Where does God promote a welfare state ? Where does he say feed, clothe, build houses, & provide medical care for those who won't work ?

 

[Surfer Joe]

Lebuick, you said people have said Democrats cannot be Christians. So you must have the opinion that it's OK to lie if you feel someone else has ?

Glad yer not my pastor.

Well, gee...someone just questioned my faith the other night and accused me of having "liberal" beliefs.

I myself have seen it all over this board. And I've known other Christians who've said one can't be a Christian if they are a Democrat. The only thing worse than someone saying that a Democrat can't be a Christian is someone saying nobody says it.

Is saying "glad yer not my pastor" edifying to anyone?

 

[Surfer Joe]

Then post some. Answer my challenge, for once. I say God advocates personal responsibility, not a welfare state, and use Israel as a biblical example.

What do you say ? Where does God promote a welfare state ? Where does he say feed, clothe, build houses, & provide medical care for those who won't work ?

Three problems with this post.

a) I already answered your challenge myself. God instructed Jospeh to store up enough food to feed the people for a whole seven year famine.

b) God does not only advocate personal responsibility. He has given all of us responsibility for others. Anyone who will not feed, clothe, build houses or provide medical care for the poor is probably a stench in the nostrils of the Lord.

c) You have this unfortunate problem of not knowing what's going on in this country. You generalize everyone and refer to them as people who won't work. Have you been reading the news?:BangHead: As for people who won't work, I believe that was talking about Christians...not those outside the faith. But try, please try, to remember that not everyone who is unemployed doesn't want to work. There are plenty of great, hard working people in my county who have no job now through no fault of their own. Your attitude is frankly, disgusting. I think I'm done.:BangHead:

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Ok...so a Republican government told them to do it. It is my opinion that what really caused this economic mess was greedy executives (probably Republicans) drove gas prices through the roof last summer that people could no longer afford their homes. So you'd rather have no regulation over any industry whatsoever? You want more and more 'pandemics'?

Probably republicans ? That's just idiotic, and I'm not going to even bother. Do better, I don't waste time with stupid suppositions.

No, that's not the case. Financial institutions and some other industries are regulated by the government and were thus able to avoid these problems for the most part. Canada is having some problems right now but nowhere near what the U.S. is having. Canada has a better health care system (must be cuz of them nasty socialists who implemented it) than the U.S. can ever dream of having at least for a while. The Constitution gives the federal government the right to regulate commerce. Unless you can show it to me that I'm wrong. Again, government regulates all kinds of private businesses.

Like I said, show me where the Bible advocates socialism. The rest of your statement is pure conjecture, because foe every blog that you can post up backing your position, I can find one of a rich Canadian coming here for medical treatment.

Originally Posted by Surfer Joe
What I do not know is where I said the parable of the talents was a fable. Last I checked it had to do with spiritual gifts, etc. We will answer for what we did with the gifts we had. I don't think it matters what kind of government God gave to Israel because this is not Israel, nor was it ever meant to be. Anyone who thinks the United States is a pseudo-Israel is hugely mistaken.

It does matter. God provided what he thought was the perfect form of government, but they wanted to be taken care of. You can now show us what you know about scripture, (because it is my opinion that liberals seldom know the bible as well as conservatives) and tell us what that form of government was.

Hate them if you want. My dad's union job was God's way of putting food on our table and I am not going to fault him. And my dad was not a powerful executive.

I don't care about your dad. I care about Massachusetts driving all the business out of state, and putting in unfathomable taxes to take their place. That's what unions do, they destroy business.

BTW, just type /quote in the brackets, this HTML doesnt recognize /endquote

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Three problems with this post.

a) I already answered your challenge myself. God instructed Jospeh to store up enough food to feed the people for a whole seven year famine.

b) God does not only advocate personal responsibility. He has given all of us responsibility for others. Anyone who will not feed, clothe, build houses or provide medical care for the poor is probably a stench in the nostrils of the Lord.

c) You have this unfortunate problem of not knowing what's going on in this country. You generalize everyone and refer to them as people who won't work. Have you been reading the news?:BangHead: As for people who won't work, I believe that was talking about Christians...not those outside the faith. But try, please try, to remember that not everyone who is unemployed doesn't want to work. There are plenty of great, hard working people in my county who have no job now through no fault of their own. Your attitude is frankly, disgusting. I think I'm done.:BangHead:

That post was to JustChristian. You might have read that in the place where the poster is quoted. There is no problem in my post, just in your lack of experience on this board. I do see a nasty trick played by a lot of liberals, and you employed it as well. I didn't say "poor". I said " those who won't work". I never said Christians are not to care for the poor. Be careful you don't lie about what I said, because I don't put up with it.

Another thing, poll after poll seems to show that conservatives give way more to charities than liberals. I don't know if it's true or not, but I do know liberals like to do their giving thru successful people's taxes, and use the "greed" word to justify it. Talk about a stench.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Well, gee...someone just questioned my faith the other night and accused me of having "liberal" beliefs.

I feel a closer walk with god will lead one away from liberal beliefs. And I do know several conservative democrats. I've taken on several republicans on this board, as well, so don't get all self-pitiful on us.

I myself have seen it all over this board. And I've known other Christians who've said one can't be a Christian if they are a Democrat. The only thing worse than someone saying that a Democrat can't be a Christian is someone saying nobody says it.

Then you should report it, and show me a link where such is said.

Is saying "glad yer not my pastor" edifying to anyone?

Yup. I don't like dishonest folks, especially ones who stand behind a pulpit. Perhaps you don't have those kind of standards ?