Obama Endorses Homosexuality

[just-want-peace]

The sad part is, DonnA, is that no one wants to call sin "Sin" any more. No, it is been re-wrapped as "shortcomings" and "choice" and "differences". Sin leaves a bad taste in the mouth and we can't have that.

That's the same reason you don't hear about the blood of Jesus in churches, or anything about hell. God has been tamed and pre-packaged to be as politically correct as all the other crap in today's society.

Where are the prophets crying out about God's coming wrath? Where are the people weeping for their sins and the sins of their neighbors? Where are the watchmen? We are all asleep in front of our televisions, watching the latest song and dance put forth by the powers that be to keep us pacified and ignorant.

Dear God, have mercy on us and our nation...

Bolded mine

AMEN, AMEN, and AMEN!!!
​

The LOVE and MERCY, and PATIENCE of God are well publicized and heralded! But it's slim to none the chance that you'll hear a sermon on God's wrath, judgment, or anger anymore.

Those who are depending ONLY on the first listed attributes of God are going to be rather upset when they suddenly realize - too late - that all that sweetness and light that they had been promised by the liberals, has another aspect to it that was never explained to them.

 

[Dragoon68]

... The military is a fighting/killing machine, not a church. ...

This one little statement is a prevalent way of thinking. It suggests that anything outside the "church" is not subject to the same standards as that within the "church". God's laws applies to all aspects of our lives. The military is indeed a "killing machine" but its members are subject to God's law. It is an instrument of civil government to enforce a measure of justice and restrain among men. Civil government is an institution of God's design and its members and leaders are subject to His law. Homosexuality is not "okay" either inside or outside of the "church". It is wrong in all places at all times. We, for the sake of other liberties, choose when and how to restrain knowing full well we can force righteousness into the heart of man. But restrain it we should knowing full well we can encourage compliance to a minimum public standard of conduct and can exercise justice over wickedness. Homosexual conduct demands punishment not tolerance or reward. It is the duty of civil government to exercise that judgment. When they fail to do it they will be accountable to God. In this nation, we are the government, so we shall be accountable for what we have sown by the appeasement of homosexuality. It will likely be manifested within the military and the consequences felt first and foremost on those who serve our nation. We will bear the guilt for it. This is very sad.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

The title of this thread is false. There is a huge difference between endorsing homosexuality and endorsing homosexual human beings.

 

[donnA]

This will be my final post in this thread because (a) I have stated my views, (b) others have stated their views, and I don't expect anyone will have a change of mind. Also I have to prepare for a major winter storm coming tonight and tomorrow. As I will probably lose power tomorrow I expect this to be a very long weekend.

Nobody, at least not myself, is talking about tolerating any sin. This is certainly not about tolerating homosexuality. I go back to what I said in my first reply in this thread. For me, gays in the military is a non-issue. There have always been gays in the military. The military is a fighting/killing machine, not a church. So as long as we allow fornicators, adulterers, and other immoral people into the military I don't see the problem with allowing homosexuals. As Christians we certainly should share the Gospel with everyone (homosexuals included). We should also call sin what it is, evil. Homosexuality is sinful and those who refuse to repent of that sin will spend eternity in hell (1Cor 6:9-10, Rev 21:8). I have made that point multiple times in this thread. However laws banning homosexuals in the military just are not realistic in today's society. Such laws will not work and unless we are going to ban all immoral people from the military such laws will only be grand examples of inconsistency.

you must not have read the quote I was posting too.

 

[Dragoon68]

The title of this thread is false. There is a huge difference between endorsing homosexuality and endorsing homosexual human beings.

We hear that every time! If you endorse the goals of group of people who are homosexuals that are advocating homosexuality you are, in fact, endorsing homosexuality. That's exactly what Obama is doing.

 

[SolaSaint]

I'm sorry but I must disagree with many of the posters in here that believe there is gay bashing going on in this thread. I've served and worked for the military for almost 30 years now and homosexual behavior is not allowed in the military. Clinton pushed for this "don't ask, don't tell" policy and got it passed, but it still is punishable to be openly gay. This is the military we are talking about, not the local bank or grocery store. Discipline is one of the first things learned in basic training and without it, the military would fail. To allow openly gay men/women in would degrade the discipline in my opinion. It is immoral just as much as doing drugs or having an affair if married, and these are punishable also. Now I know some will say that much immoral behavior is allowed, but this immoral behavior you speak of is not punishable. It's not punishable to sleep around or get drunk or many other thinks we as Christians disapprove of, but this is the military's set rules, either abide by them or stay out. Remember we are talking about sexual behavior, this is a choice and if a man or woman wants to choose to be gay then they forfeit their ability to qualify for military service, unless they keep quite about it.

I tell you what is really wrong. I would bet that 60-80% of the military right now is unqualified to serve. I know most men and women lie to get in. They lie about drug usage and health issues and even dependency issues. They lie to get in, but gay's don't have to lie anymore like they used to, because Clinton allows them to "not tell". hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I really think this is all wrong. If you want to serve the in greatest military in the world, then stay clean to qualify. That was always my message to young kids. :wavey:

 

[Dragoon68]

This one little statement is a prevalent way of thinking. It suggests that anything outside the "church" is not subject to the same standards as that within the "church". God's laws applies to all aspects of our lives. The military is indeed a "killing machine" but its members are subject to God's law. It is an instrument of civil government to enforce a measure of justice and restrain among men. Civil government is an institution of God's design and its members and leaders are subject to His law. Homosexuality is not "okay" either inside or outside of the "church". It is wrong in all places at all times. We, for the sake of other liberties, choose when and how to restrain it and other conduct knowing full well we cannot force righteousness into the heart of man. But restrain it we should knowing full well we can encourage compliance to a minimum public standard of conduct and can exercise justice over wickedness. Homosexual conduct demands punishment - not tolerance or reward. It is the duty of civil government to exercise that judgment. When they fail to do it they will be accountable to God. In this nation, we are the government, so we shall be accountable for what we have sown by the appeasement of homosexuality. It will likely be manifested within the military and the consequences felt first and foremost on those who serve our nation. We will bear the guilt for it. This is very sad.

This corrects an important typo in my previous posting, as shown in bold, that could otherwise convey the opposite point than I intended!

 

[righteousdude2]

It Takes a Gay, to Support and Embrace Gays...

This sin is so involved with perversion, that it takes someone in bed with it (homosexuality), to support and embrace it!

I said this in 2007, and in 2008, I think Obama leans toward homosexuality. Only time will tell if I'm right, but, Rev. Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart, and Paul Crouch (TBN) all dabbled their feet in the cesspool with perversion.

I have no doubt that Obama has something to hide, and time will bring it to the forefront. How novel... he may be the first black, Muslim, and gay POTUS. The Muslim and gay issues are yet to be revealed, but, slick media investigators will bring it out if it's there to bring out.

Please don't hammer me for my opinion. It is simply an opinion. Let's call it a hunch!:thumbs:

Shalom,

Pastor Paul :type:

 

[righteousdude2]

You May Be On To Something...

I'm sorry but I must disagree with many of the posters in here that believe there is gay bashing going on in this thread. I've served and worked for the military for almost 30 years now and homosexual behavior is not allowed in the military. Clinton pushed for this "don't ask, don't tell" policy and got it passed, but it still is punishable to be openly gay. This is the military we are talking about, not the local bank or grocery store. Discipline is one of the first things learned in basic training and without it, the military would fail. To allow openly gay men/women in would degrade the discipline in my opinion. It is immoral just as much as doing drugs or having an affair if married, and these are punishable also. Now I know some will say that much immoral behavior is allowed, but this immoral behavior you speak of is not punishable. It's not punishable to sleep around or get drunk or many other thinks we as Christians disapprove of, but this is the military's set rules, either abide by them or stay out. Remember we are talking about sexual behavior, this is a choice and if a man or woman wants to choose to be gay then they forfeit their ability to qualify for military service, unless they keep quite about it.

I tell you what is really wrong. I would bet that 60-80% of the military right now is unqualified to serve. I know most men and women lie to get in. They lie about drug usage and health issues and even dependency issues. They lie to get in, but gay's don't have to lie anymore like they used to, because Clinton allows them to "not tell". hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I really think this is all wrong. If you want to serve the in greatest military in the world, then stay clean to qualify. That was always my message to young kids. :wavey:

I can't disagree with you opinions. I believe as you. while we have a great military, made up of great folks willing to sacrifice all for America, there are those in the military that should not be there. This thing with drugs started in Nam. The military bases smelled like "pot dens" all across America in the late 1960's. This had to do with the draft taking anybody that had a heartbeat...:type:

 

[windcatcher]

In discussing this with my 87y/o dad.... USN retired vet of WWII and Korean War...... He tells me that men who were thought by others to be gay have always been in the military... and some of them were able to advance through the ranks.... but it wasnot something admitted to or openly allowed nor tolerated by the rank and file... if known for sure.

I see it as a moral issue and a morale issue, based upon discussions with my dad: A person who doesn't have the moral character to live within the discipline of behavior normally accepted by that group are in a position, by their own behavior, to not be trusted by others. Clinton's policy was already in effect..... in a way..... long before Clinton mouthed it off to others and increased the boldness of sodomites joining the military.

Up until recent years, ones sexuality was not a topic of open discussion. But sex education in schools and the aggressive sodomite agenda, has brought it to the forefront of publically discussed topics. What is seldom even touched on is that not only is the military's morale being affected..... but even the morale in the workplace of everyday Americans is being affected by the aggressiveness of the openly sodomite agenda. Sodomites, who prefer to wag their tale before others, who they know are heterosexuals or who have moral values built upon faith, such as those of Christians, often position themselves to undercut, undermine and otherwise discourage the recognition or the advancement of others who are not like themselves.

They are united by their peculiar behaviors against those who they oppose or who may stand in their way, and practices in the workplace such as sensitivity training and legislation adds power and protection to their willingness and lack of ethics to distort for the sake of promoting their own cause. Those whom they come most against are often those who not only think of sodomy as sin, but also have moral and ethical values such that they would not deliberately entrap or state a falsehood on another co-worker to create an environment of hostility.

When so much of military promotion and advancement is dependent on records of merit and reports of discipline, it is imperative that the soldier is able to trust and have confidence in that fraternal belief among peers... that they back each other with equality and that their commanding officers give honest apprasiels of their conduct without partiality to political correctness or private liasons.

Regarding the military now accepting many who herefofore would have been disqualified.... flies all across the board. Health issues become none issues when one is told 'don't ask, don't tell' by their recruiter, and the cursory military physical is more of an artifact to enable numbers to be recruited instead of screening out those with health problems which might be real issues of liability in war. I've heard (I hope I am wrong) that ex-felons and parolees are now being allowed to join the military. With our educational system being dumbed down as it is.... I also wouldn't be surprise if it is true that what I've heard ..... about those who have problems speaking English, and those with problems in literacy are now being accepted.

And now the zero thinks its alright to admit sodomites openly. How many of us would trust our lives or those of our children in fighting shoulder to shoulder WITH a person who may have problems with anger management, or difficulties in immediately understanding and obeying directions, or drug dependancies, or issues of morality, trust, and ethics? This is not a good thing for anyone.

 

[windcatcher]

Martin sez: 1 "Kicking open homosexuals out the military--"
Granted, but it sure will keep the closet ones in the closet, which is precisely the point.

2 "--as long as they are not bothering other people--"
Again, precisely! If they are staying in the closet, THEY WILL NOT BOTHER OTHER PEOPLE, again, precisely the point.

As to co-ed showers etc, what is the difference in the ***** ( I refuse to use the G term, 'cuz they ain't) in a shower with his/her s*x, and the male/female in the shower with the female/male s*x.

In either case there's s*xual attraction; in the first case, the aberrant variety, and second case, normal variety.

IOW how would you feel if you were forced to shower with one of the opposite gender that is not your spouse???? You OK with that????

Same thing when there's one "of them" in the shower with you; that OK??

Sure ain't with me, unless I did not know of his "uniqueness"! If I know about it, we just ain't gonna be physically real close under any circumstances --- if I can help it.

Basically what I'm saying Martin, is that I don't care how close you've worked with, lived around, or observed service personnel, it ain't the same as being a part of their daily, 24/7, close quarters life, so just accept that you will never understand the problems that "they" have the potential to cause!

It's been bad enough in the past, but if the (0) gets his way, you can be assured that the problems will increase exponentially.

Don't try to fix something that ain't broke!

Added to this problem is the normal 'body shuffle' which occurs between people who must work in close quarters and bump into each other. When you trust others as being heterosexual like you.... you accept that contact happens without ulterior motives. But once homosexuals are present.... you don't know when a bump is accidental or a deliberate pass. A complaint would likely get the heterosexual a reprimand and a course in sensitivity training. How does this improve morale? CTB also stated that to him it was no problem..... but how about the rest of the soldiers who had to bunk in the barracks by the hundreds while two were given special quarters and accommodations for their 'exercise'?

The sad part is, DonnA, is that no one wants to call sin "Sin" any more. No, it is been re-wrapped as "shortcomings" and "choice" and "differences". Sin leaves a bad taste in the mouth and we can't have that.

That's the same reason you don't hear about the blood of Jesus in churches, or anything about hell. God has been tamed and pre-packaged to be as politically correct as all the other crap in today's society.

Where are the prophets crying out about God's coming wrath? Where are the people weeping for their sins and the sins of their neighbors? Where are the watchmen? We are all asleep in front of our televisions, watching the latest song and dance put forth by the powers that be to keep us pacified and ignorant.

Dear God, have mercy on us and our nation...

Ever have an 'I wish I said that' moment? Well said Trotter!:applause:

 

[Revmitchell]

The other problem with letting homosexuals in the Military would be all the accusations of discrimination and harassment of those who do not accept their life style. The Military courts would become full of cases involving the false charged of homosexuals who are only trying to push their agenda further. It is bad enough outside of the Military. This would just push the Military into disarray.

 

[Dragoon68]

The other problem with letting homosexuals in the Military would be all the accusations of discrimination and harassment of those who do not accept their life style. The Military courts would become full of cases involving the false charged of homosexuals who are only trying to push their agenda further. It is bad enough outside of the Military. This would just push the Military into disarray.

Yes, indeed, this would open that door and that's exactly what the homosexuals want across the board. They want to be able to use the force of law to force acceptance of their sinful conduct.

"Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer." - Romans 13:2-4

When the purpose of law is perverted to suit the perverted then those with "good conduct" are faced with punishment rather than those who "do wrong". That's where the homosexual agenda is pointed and with the help of leaders like Obama they'll be able to get a lot closer to their goal.

Christians should stop making excuses for this sinful conduct, condemn it for what it is, and work very hard to restore the general public morality - including the force of civil law - that restrained it until recent times.

 

[righteousdude2]

Hitting the Showers.... 2gether???

The shower issue was exactly why I quit going to Balley's... and these were private shower enclosures. Whcih didn't stop the gay men from reaching in, or standing outside your stall and doing perverted things to get attention.

Management and police knew of the problem, and though the police ran numerous stings, they couldn't stop these guys from doing their thing.

Gays have one united cause, and it is to expand their perversion to the ends of the earth!

 

[rbell]

I don't agree with that. Immorality is immorality. One is not worse than the other. All forms of immorality are condemned.

Yes, evil is evil...but some evil has more immediate and destructive consequences in certain situations than others.

I understand your point about how homosexuality can create unique issues. However I don't agree that such issues are reason enough to remove them from the military.

Then we simply disagree.

After all, these are the same issues faced in college dorms, at swimming pools, lakes, and beaches.

There's simply no comparison between a day at the beach and life in the military. That's like comparing playing catch in my front yard with my nine year-old and a twenty-year NFL career.

We cannot control what other people think.

Unfortunately, the gay lobby is working on that...(see "hate crimes.")

As long as they leave others alone and keep their behavior to themselves and their "circle of friends", and are not creating problems, I don't believe they should be removed.

There we have our disagreement...I think the behavior will and does cause problems.

 

[Johnv]

The shower issue was exactly why I quit going to Balley's...

I don't think the shower issue can be used as a litmus test for gays in the military. I've been going to a health club for over 10 years, and never had an incident like that. Most folks who survuved high school or college gym, college dorms, etc, have never exprienced problems to that extent. Sure, they happen, I'm sure, but like anything else, I suspect they're the exception, not the rule.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I'm not sure really what to think. I'm sick and tired of using the military as a social experement. ITs the military and its function is to kill people and destroy things not promote social change. Those stupid polititians!

As far as gays in the Military. There have always been gays in the military but had the common sense to keep it quiet. Not jepordizing the cohesion necissary for proper operations. Now if this passes every gay wanting to prove a point will join the military. These type of people are by nature anti-establishment and will cause serious problems for our military. I'm sure there are gays not like that but I believe they will be the minority in the upcomming events of the future.

I don't like the arguement that a person who is gay by nature reduces the effectiveness of the military certainly the spartans were gay but were also very fierce. The problem as I see it in the US is that the one who want this passed are the anarchist type that will undermine the establishment by joining the military to cause a ruckus. Just like gays who purposely go to Christian Colleges to cause problems.

 

[Johnv]

I'm not sure really what to think. I'm sick and tired of using the military as a social experement... I don't like the arguement that a person who is gay by nature reduces the effectiveness of the military...

As always, you make good points.

 

[Dragoon68]

... I don't like the arguement that a person who is gay by nature reduces the effectiveness of the military certainly the spartans were gay but were also very fierce. ...

How did you learn that the Spartans were homosexuals? Was it in a revisionist history book - or a recent movie - designed to make us think homosexuality doesn't cause a problem? I know homosexuality is not new - no sinful behavior is - but I seriously doubt that the Spartans were a homosexual lot and also the fierce warriors they were as a unit.

Every incidence - not very many but a few - of homosexuality I encountered in the military caused some sort of problem with unit effectiveness. It is pathetic in every respect and deserves no tolerance whatsoever.

 

[Johnv]

Every incidence - not very many but a few - of homosexuality I encountered in the military caused some sort of problem with unit effectiveness. It is pathetic in every respect and deserves no tolerance whatsoever.

Then the answer is simple: Have a zero tolerance for such activity in the military. If you attempt to engage in any homosexual activity in the course of military service, you're out. The question, howoever, seems to be whether it's necessary to bar anyone who itentifies himsef as homosexual as a prerequisite. There's a difference between being gay and engaging in gay bahavior. Certainly, most men in the military are heterosexual, but do not engage in heterosexual acts while in service. It would not be unreasonable, therefore, to expect of a gay man who enlists to refrain from gay activity during his service.