Obama Rhetoric vs Health Care Reality

[Ed Edwards]

Yep, (individual name removed, - be nice, now, MP) loves the womenfolk. NOT!

Great compassion for those in bad situations who are hurting.

Amen, Brother MP -- Preach it !!

Revmitchell's trailer:
America was founded by Right Wing Extremists.
should be:
America was slam dunked by Right Wing Extremists.

I heard Presedent Obama's press conference today (I'd rather have watched Y&R .
1. His stand on Iran
1. Ed's stand: Amen, Brother President Obama -- Preach it!

2. His stand on economic bill
2. Ed's stand: Amen, Brother President Obama -- Preach it!

3. His stand on Health and Health Insurance:
3. Ed's stand was (before rest of speech): Yep, screw Ed, he enjoys paying others.
3. During his speech I realized: My whole family lives off the dole. I have one of the best health insurance policies available for the working person in the World. I get to buy the plan I want to from those available (I go for health insurance for Senior Citizens / i r 1 / ) (I go for family plans - I'm raising a family - couple of grandchildren).

Sorry, I now favor President Obama's plan.

The churches FAILED to do the simple task of taking care of orphans and widows and help the SICK. [the churches didn't even do all that great a job of winning the world, even though there are more nominal Christians (numbers and %) now than since 33AD when Jesus Rose from the Grave.
The goverment can do a better job than the churches. I'll gladly pay tax on my Medicare to pay for the orphans, widows, disabled, unemployed and victims of society (governmental social order).
God Bless the New Order - the USofA ! ! !
Look onl the back of the USofA one dollah bill - right there it is under the all seeing eye at the top of the pyramid (left side):
NOVUS ORDO SECTORUM
'novus' a Latin word from which we get our word 'new'
'ordo' a Latin word from which we get our word 'order'
'sectorum' a Latin word from which we get our word 'secular';
'secular' is as opposed to 'churchy' i.e. ' the world' a word used in the Bible for the world order, world way of doing things under the governance of our old lord & savior: The Satan (name unknown).

Have a nice NOVUS ORDO SECTORUM​

I think I'll give that dollah to the poor
Blessed be our New Lord and Savior: :jesus:
Messiah Jesus -- been working on me for 57 years now.

I was talking to one of my church members and we thought we would do something to honor our member who turns 98-years-old this month. Somebody else said come Sept this would be his his 50th year of Sunday School teaching. I said "No, I'm only 65 and I've been teaching Sunday School most of the years since I was 15 -- that is fifty years. Must be 70, not 70. I was right, of course. He was saved when 27 years old and started teaching 70 years ago when he was 28 years old.

P.S. most people who post here take personal slams with the adage:

When Peter disses Paul,
it tells you more about Peter
than about Paul.

 

[Revmitchell]

Slaughter is not the only condition of murder and I don't know if it makes the sin worse. Again, are you truly pro-life?

What in the world are you talking about.

Sure, you can close the mills but that won't stop abortions. Meth labs are illegal but there is tons of it on the streets.

Let'sr epeal all laws because laws will never stop them.

This is where I really part with you.

The mother who seeks an abortion has far more problems than just the obvious. This is a person who is truly crying on the inside in seek of direction. God has made us custodians, defenders and propagators of the direction which they SHOULD seek. Our mission, the great commission is to present the direction.

Who are we to cast away a soul because they are considering a bad choice or is our mission to do our best to help this individual see the light? Who are we to write off a person because they've sinned? Did God give you that license? I mean to write them off without first witnessing.

Who casts away anyone or writes off anyone. This is another of your strawman arguments.

The mother is still a life and a soul put here by God and is someone we should equally seek to save. To deny this is to pass your own judgment on this individual and makes you just as guilty of murder. Eternal murder...

Who does not want to see her saved? strawman

It seems one can be so caught up in being anti-abortion that we forget the real mission of the Church. That is why God has us here, to go into the world and make disciples. We are here to save all souls and not just those of the unborn (who are already saved by the way).

Who is doing this? Strawman

You completely missed my point, we all have sinned. To say you haven't is to call God a liar. However, we are saved from our sins because we were not written off. Jesus is offering salvation to the mother and we should be equally concerned about her life, her soul. Anyone making bad decision shows or hands the work the have to do. To turn your back on that work is to turn your back on the Mission of Christ and His Church.

You did not come close to making this point. Nor is it relevant. Salvation and the legality of abortion are separate issues.

Again Rev, I hate to see anyone get so anti abortion that they forget about the mission of the Church. I have no problem with doing for the unborn but I believe God's concern and love is for all life and not just the unborn.

And? We do not sacrifice the child to fulfill the mission of the church. That is sick.

[/quote]I may be wrong but I cry less for the unborn because they bypassed the misery and suffering of this world and went directly to be with the Lord. A law won't change that but I am not against having the law.[/QUOTE]

You are wrong. This is your to reason away the life of the child in favor of abortion.

 

[LeBuick]

Talk about nice timing...

Obama directly contradicts your assertion:

Obama: Govt-run health care could trump private​

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D990H1300&show_article=1

I watched the conference and don't remember this part. I have it on my Tivo so will look back to see if and how this was said.

Obama says that's a byproduct of competition and that, without an overhaul of the system, Americans face a possibility of seeing changes in their health care for the worse.

 

[LeBuick]

You did not come close to making this point. Nor is it relevant. Salvation and the legality of abortion are separate issues.

I was addressing these statements you made. God cares for the mothers also. You appear to be writing them off as not worthy of our compassion or witness.

Stop acting as if the numbers of abortions were even close to what they are now. And the women who died did so committing a crime. They were criminals and suffered the consequences of their own illegal actions.

Mothers who want to slaughter their unborn child would be guilty of a crime as it should be. A mother dying in the activity of murder is far different than the death of the child. But libbies have huge problems making legitimate comparisons.

And? We do not sacrifice the child to fulfill the mission of the church. That is sick.

I don't see saving the unborn included in the mission of the Church but I never said sacrifice one for the other. I said both are souls and both lives are equally important to God. God cares for everyone to include murderers.

You are wrong. This is your to reason away the life of the child in favor of abortion.

No, I simply said the worst man can do to you is the best thing that can spiritually happen. Death is the only vehicle to heaven and heaven is better than existing here on earth. The Bible clearly teaches to be absent from the flesh is to be present with God.

I am not in favor of abortion. I am however pro- (ALL) life which I can see is hard for you to understand. I have not been commanded to value one life or soul over another.

 

[LeBuick]

Talk about nice timing...

Obama directly contradicts your assertion:

Obama: Govt-run health care could trump private​

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D990H1300&show_article=1

I see, you are right. I focused on the wrong part of the story.

Yes, the public option could trump a poorly run private insurance provider. That is the mechanism that will make the public plan bring the private plans under control. There is no reform that I can see without the public plan since things will just continue as they do today.

However, if all you right wing nay sayers are right you have nothing to fear, since you believe government isn't capable of running anything right or efficient then there is no chance the public option will trump the private.

 

[Revmitchell]

I was addressing these statements you made. God cares for the mothers also. You appear to be writing them off as not worthy of our compassion or witness.





I don't see saving the unborn included in the mission of the Church but I never said sacrifice one for the other. I said both are souls and both lives are equally important to God. God cares for everyone to include murderers.

No I don't. The context is in those mothers who murder their children. It is never right to murder their children even in difficult circumstances. At this point the mother is a murderer. I see libbies calling for the compassion of mothers who are murderers but did not see that same compassion for Bush. A rather inconsistent position. Apparently one type of person is worth more than the other to you.

My position is consistent. Murderers need to be dealt with as murderers until they are repentant.

No, I simply said the worst man can do to you is the best thing that can spiritually happen. Death is the only vehicle to heaven and heaven is better than existing here on earth. The Bible clearly teaches to be absent from the flesh is to be present with God.

That is not relevant to this subject. Ripping unborn children limb from limb is not the answer. By your logic we should kill the mother.

[/quote]I am not in favor of abortion. I am however pro- (ALL) life which I can see is hard for you to understand. I have not been commanded to value one life or soul over another.[/QUOTE]

The mothers life is not in question here.Nor should we be choosing the mother over the child or the other way around.

 

[OldRegular]

I am amazed that there are so many socialists on this Forum. Wonder how they square that with the teaching of Scripture?

 

[rbell]

However, if all you right wing nay sayers are right you have nothing to fear, since you believe government isn't capable of running anything right or efficient then there is no chance the public option will trump the private.

You would be correct...however, you are forgetting that government does not play by the rules of competition. So...it really doesn't matter if government healthcare is better or not...government virtually always acts to protect its own self-interests. (See "Bureaucracy" and "red tape" for more)

Therefore, your perjoratives are incorrect. It's not about what is better. It's about giving the bureaucrats a foothold...and from there, they don't let go.

But what do I know? I'm just a stupid "right-wing nay-sayer." Right, LeBuick?

 

[LeBuick]

But what do I know? I'm just a stupid "right-wing nay-sayer." Right, LeBuick?

I would never call you stupid, in fact I believe just the opposite. First of all a wise man loves Christ and despite our philosophical differences, I have no doubt about your love for Christ. And second, I would never call a guy who uses the word pejoratives stupid... :thumbsup:

 

[targus]

I am amazed that there are so many socialists on this Forum. Wonder how they square that with the teaching of Scripture?

Not so much socialists as much as someone looking for a free lunch.

No doubt these same self-thought experts will be back on the board with a new thread about taxes being too high and how someone else should pay them or how come the wait to see a doctor is so long should they and Obama get their way with a government take over of one of the world's best health care systems.

One of the most vocal about the need for a "public option" for health care for example won't even take a job at Walmart because it is beneath him and his station while he sends his wife out to work to support him and provide him with medical insurance and then he has the gall to complain that the insurance doesn't meet up to his standards.

 

[Revmitchell]

Not so much socialists as much as someone looking for a free lunch.

And that is exactly what marxists like Obama and Pelosi and company play on.

 

[RAdam]

Let me point out a few things.

First of all, if you are a Christian I cannot see how you can rationalize Roe v Wade. Abortion is murder. Some will point to back-alley abortions and claim that I care not for the life of the mother. I do. However, a mother that tries to kill her own child should be a criminal. If it was illegal and a woman went to a back-alley abortion and ended up dying, would I rejoice? No, absolutely not. Death is not something to rejoice over. I'd have rather the woman had chosen to do the right thing and give birth to her baby. However, we cannot make something that is horribly wrong legal just because someone might skirt the law and put their own lives in danger.

Secondly, on the subject of universal health care, let's look at the places where it currently operates. If you actually listen to people that have this in place you'll see that it is a massive failure. Why? When the government gets involved in something the bureaucracy is maddening for one thing. I know of a little boy that died because bureaucracy tied up his medicine until too late. You'll see much more of this when government takes over health care. You'll start to see incompetence abound. Anyone who has actually worked for a government agency and seen the government work first hand knows these things to be true. Why is the American health care the best? Because it is private. All we are going to accomplish if we go with Obama's plan is to ruin a good health care system. Do I feel bad for the people without health insurance? Absolutely. But it is not the government's place to take care of the people. The government is not our momma holding our hand, fixing our lunch, putting band-aids on our bo-bos, telling us what to watch and when to go to bed, and so forth. Read the pre-amble to the constitution to see why our government exists and what they are to do.

 

[donnA]

First of all, if you are a Christian I cannot see how you can rationalize Roe v Wade. Abortion is murder. Some will point to back-alley abortions and claim that I care not for the life of the mother. I do. However, a mother that tries to kill her own child should be a criminal. If it was illegal and a woman went to a back-alley abortion and ended up dying, would I rejoice? No, absolutely not. Death is not something to rejoice over. I'd have rather the woman had chosen to do the right thing and give birth to her baby. However, we cannot make something that is horribly wrong legal just because someone might skirt the law and put their own lives in danger.

:thumbsup:

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I am amazed that there are so many socialists on this Forum. Wonder how they square that with the teaching of Scripture?

The word "socialist" is tossed around as a perjorative, just like the term "liberal" to not focus on the issues. The founding fathers recognized that some things are done by the government. Take providing for the common defense for example. Do we each contract with our own private army? Do we have our individual fire and police, libraries, highways? Of course not. But those things are socialized. They are common things we all need.

 

[rbell]

The word "socialist" is tossed around as a perjorative, just like the term "liberal" to not focus on the issues. The founding fathers recognized that some things are done by the government. Take providing for the common defense for example. Do we each contract with our own private army? Do we have our individual fire and police, libraries, highways? Of course not. But those things are socialized. They are common things we all need.

You're right on.

But this isn't defense, or infrastructure.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

You're right on.

But this isn't defense, or infrastructure.

But it is providing for the common welfare of the people, a constitutional mandate of government.

 

[donnA]

I don't recall the founding fathers telling anyone what medicatiosn, tests, or treatments people could have, or even offering to pay for health care.

 

[donnA]

But it is providing for the common welfare of the people, a constitutional mandate of government.

you think witing months to see a doctor, recieve medical treatments is for the common welfare of the people?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I don't recall the founding fathers telling anyone what medicatiosn, tests, or treatments people could have, or even offering to pay for health care.

Nice red herring. Guess you are having fish for dinner!

I don't recall the founding fathers setting speed limits on Interstates, or offering medicare for seniors either. So what?

 

[Revmitchell]

The word "socialist" is tossed around as a perjorative, just like the term "liberal" to not focus on the issues. The founding fathers recognized that some things are done by the government. Take providing for the common defense for example. Do we each contract with our own private army? Do we have our individual fire and police, libraries, highways? Of course not. But those things are socialized. They are common things we all need.

This country was founded on a limited federal government. Limited, do you understand what limited means. What is not specifically outlined in the constitution is left to the states. Limited federal government. Did I say limited?