Offer your scriptural rebuttals to the following

late reply.
No one is Adopted ( as the bible describes in rom 8 . 23 ) until glorification.
God doesn't look down the corridor of time and sees all those who would believe . No scripture supports this . Nor the equally unbiblical idea that God determined those to be saved ( awakened ) . God predestines believers to future Glorification. Thats it . its so simple you have to go to seminary and learn systematic theology to undo the simplicity of the Gosepl .

 

Total Depravity makes foreseeing any good in anybody impossible.

 

The simple order is found in eph 1
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
because we are sealed until the day of redemption, this is the destiny God has decided for all those that recieve Jesus . Jesus is the 'Chosen preexisting elect one from before the foundation of the world . We are chosen in Him , AFTER we believe. Then we are predestined to certain future Redemption of the body THE ADOPTION. Rom 8 .23
An objection is raised " are we not adopted when converted. " no this is western thinking. We become sons through the new birth . We recieve the full blessing s and privileges as sons later which the bible calls the adoption ( rom 8.23 ) Now we have the ' spirit of adoption ' which is not THE adoption .

 

1) The use of the Greek words translated foreknew and foreknowledge has nothing to do with foreseeing the future. That is taking the English word meaning and applying it to the Greek, the exact opposite of what is required to understand the intended message. Foreknowledge refers to using knowledge or information acquired or formulated in the past, such as God's redemption plan, in the present. Thus Christ was put to death by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God.

2) Therefore scripture teaches God's redemption plan was formulated before creation and it included God's Redeemer (the Lamb of God) and corporately the believers His Redeemer would redeem, thus He chose us in Him. Ephesians 1:4

3) Initially we are set apart (sanctified) when God calls, transfers, or places us into Christ, Romans 6:3. This is the sanctifying work of the Spirit, 1 Peter 1:1-2. Once again we see the mechanism of election, chosen by the sanctifying work of the Spirit who immerses us into Christ.

4) When did God "write down our names" in the Lamb's Book of Life? Before creation or since creation. Revelations 13:8 Since or from or after creation. To what period does "from the foundation of the world" refer? From or since Creation to the end of the age, so as new converts are born anew today, their names are written today in the Lamb's book of life. We are "enrolled" in the general assembly after we are made perfect, Hebrews 12:23.

5) "Spiritual Adoption" is another fallacy, redefining the meaning of the Greek word translated "adoption" to mean "born anew." Hogwash. Adoption in scripture refers to the bestowal of our full privileges upon the Second Coming of Christ, Romans 8:23, i.e. our bodily redemption. This is the promised "inheritance" to which the Holy Spirit is given as a pledge, i.e. the Spirit of Adoption.

 

There are a number of major problems.
First, tbe word of God says no such things. Second, at best that is an interpretation.

What is true God elects according to His foreknowledge . . .

 

Election is simply to service . it is not related to salvation.

 

Here's your make-up as a natural man according to Paul.

Square One; “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these, adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:19–21 (NCPB)

Can you think of anything listed above that would aspire towards God? The closest perhaps is idolatry which would choose a false Christ using the will of the flesh.

Now, consider the difference in the saved. It is in the Holy Spirit God must equip a person with before they can believe in the true Christ.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” Galatians 5:22–24 (NCPB)

Take away the Holt Spirit and you are back to square one.

 

Chosen (Calvinism Exposed)

This is a good rebuttal on the ideas presented, which is basically Calvinism (which I once believed in but now see that it makes our God into a dictator who chooses men based on nothing but the fact he felt like saving some and damning others) Man has always had a choice, from the time Adam and Eve chose to sin in the bible to the day Paul decided to trust in Jesus on the road to Damascus.

 

It can't be that good if it takes 30 minutes of talking to explain.

Does this mean you now reject the idea that all men are sinful and sin deserves punishment (JUSTICE)?
Why is it God's obligation to save ANYONE?

 

That is a foolish above statement, so i will not answer it according to its' folly.

Did I ever say that? Of course we all deserve Hell and damnation for our sinful selves, but God grants us mercy and grace by offering us the gift of salvation via His son who died for us all, giving EVERY MAN a chance to repent and believe upon Him to be saved. That is the Gospel my friend.

If you want to go ahead and keep seeing God as a dictator, go right ahead sir, but that sounds like an awful witness to give to a lost sheep when trying to convince him to come into the flock to avoid losing His soul to the world. What sounds better?

Option A.) God chose you (or not), so it doesn't matter what your will is, it's already been decided.

Option B.) God gives you a chance and choice to recieve His grace, not earned, but offered freely because our God is merciful and Just, and is willing to forgive all who repent and choose to have Jesus as their lord.

Option B all the way!

 

• God also decided to choose those whom he foreknew would believe, irrelevant of their works, to be sanctified (made holy): i.e. God said "Because I know they will trust my Son, I'm going to choose him and him and him to make them holy and without blame". So God wrote down our names based on his foreknowledge. Then upon our belief of the truth, God now practically chose us unto salvation, as he knew would happen.

That sounds like their belief to me, at least one of their false ones. That GOD CHOSE, not Man chose God.

 

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

προγινώσκω;

2 aorist 3 person singular προέγνω;

perfect passive participle προεγνωσμενος;

to have knowledge of beforehand;

to foreknow: namely, ταῦτα, 2 Peter 3:17, cf. 2 Peter 3:14, 16;

τινα, Acts 26:5; οὕς προέγνω, whom he (God) foreknew, namely, that they would love him, or (with reference to what follows) whom he foreknew to be fit to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, Romans 8:29 (τῶν εἰς αὐτόν (Χριστόν) πιστεύειν προεγνωσμενων, Justin Martyr, dialog contr Trypho, c. 42;

προγινώσκει (ὁ Θεός) τινας ἐκ μετανοίας σωθήσεσθαι μέλλοντας, id. Apology 1:28);

ὅν προέγνω, whose character he clearly saw beforehand, Rom. 11: (1 Lachmann in brackets), Romans 11:2 (against those who in the preceding passages from Rom. explain προγινώσκειν as meaning to predestinate, cf. Meyer, Philippi, Van Hengel);

προεγνωσμένου, namely, ὑπό τοῦ Θεοῦ (foreknown by God, although not yet 'made manifest' to men), 1 Peter 1:20.
(Wis. 6:14 Wis. 8:8 Wis. 18:6; Euripides, Xenophon, Plato, Herodian, Philostr., others.)