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Offer your scriptural rebuttals to the following

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by George Antonios, Jul 11, 2020.

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  1. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Great response here , thankyou . I think the key is that we become sons through the new birth .
    12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
     
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Common sense tells you any translation is subject to bias.

    Εξακολουθεί να είναι το αίτημα του μεταφραστή σχετικά με τον ορισμό που θα χρησιμοποιήσει.
     
    #102 1689Dave, Jul 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020
  3. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    The O.P. was not Calvinist.
     
  4. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Aaaaaannnnnnnd....still no verse.
     
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    God's word is inspired in the original autographs. Translators take liberties = not inspired.
     
  6. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Yep. Still no verse.
     
  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” 2 Timothy 3:16–17 (NCPB)

    You say translations are inspired. Where is your proof?
     
  8. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. In context, what scripture was Paul referring to when he wrote that verse to Timothy?
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The text translated "through sanctifcation of the Spirit" is only used twice. Once by the Apostle Peter and once by the Apostle Paul. And the fact one can be sanctifed and reject the gospel indicates that sanctification precedes faith in the gospel.
     
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The OT canon but the NT as wrote declares it is scripture too.
     
  11. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, but I meant the immediate context:

    2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
    2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy SCRIPTURES, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
    2Ti 3:16 All SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    So, the scripture of v.16 is referring to what scriptures, specifically?
     
  12. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    It’s Calmenian and wrong
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Lets back up and consider these two verses, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and 1 Peter 1:1-2.

    But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. (NASB 2 Thess. 2:13)

    Here we see our individual election for salvation is in view. From the beginning may refer to an early time, but as a minimum refers to the beginning of the New Covenant." The Greek word translated as "through" is "en" and is being used to show instrumentality, i.e." d. of the instrument or means by or with which anything is accomplished," The proposition applies to two phases, "sanctification by the Spirit" and "faith in the truth." So a more expansive translation might read, by means of sanctification by the Spirit and on the basis of faith in the truth. Thus we are individually chosen on the basis of our faith in the truth by means of God setting us apart in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit.

    The second verse with our phrase is 1 Peter 1:1-2

    Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

    Once again we see our individual election for salvation is in view. And once again we see the Greek word translated as "by" is the preposition "en" and again is being used to show instrumentality, chosen by means of the Spirit setting us apart in Christ.
     
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  14. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Could it be the vehicle of savation is how we are all chosen in the church age? . After all before the cross no one was chosen through believing the death , burial and resurrection..We can say to everyone today that they are chosen through the means of believing the truth and being set apart through the Holy Spirit. Isnt that good news . We can comfort all believers today by reminding them this wonderful truth as to how they were saved . No one is ever chosen TO BE saved however , before they actually freely choose to recieve.
     
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  15. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Hunh? How?
     
  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    To all scripture now. To the OT before the NT scriptures emerged.
     
  17. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Please consider the words in capital, red, underlined letters.
     
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    What about them?
     
  19. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Would it be right to say that the scripture of v.16 is a direct reference back to the scriptures of v.15, whereon Timothy fed?
     
  20. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Are you claiming that only the OT is inspired scripture?
     
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