Oil and Virgins

[standingfirminChrist]

So unless He changes it sometime in the future we would be better served sharing the Truth with folks instead of all this feel good nonsense that is going on.

Isn't it feel good nonsense to say the five foolish virgins are saved? After all, they were prepared. The Lord has prepared kingdom for a prepared people. Those not a part of the kingdom will be cast into the lake of fire in that place of outer darkness.

 

[J. Jump]

Isn't it feel good nonsense to say the five foolish virgins are saved?

Sure it is, because in your view a Christian can live any ole way the please and still get into the kingdom. Everyone gets a piece of the pie in your view, despite how they live.

The Lord has prepared kingdom for a prepared people.

Exacty! That's what we've been trying to say the entire time. But being prepared for the kingdom in this context doesn't have to do with salvation, because this was addressing people that were already saved! It had to do with being prepared with works. And works don't enter the salvation picture.

Those not a part of the kingdom will be cast into the lake of fire in that place of outer darkness.

Please explain to me how a lake of fire can be dark?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Sure it is, because in your view a Christian can live any ole way the please and still get into the kingdom. Everyone gets a piece of the pie in your view, despite how they live.

No, A Christian cannot live anyway they please. A christian will live for Christ. Christian means Christ-like, not worldly.

Exacty! That's what we've been trying to say the entire time. But being prepared for the kingdom in this context doesn't have to do with salvation, because this was addressing people that were already saved! It had to do with being prepared with works. And works don't enter the salvation picture.

The five foolish virgins were unsaved, the Bridegroom (Christ) professed, "I know you not". If they were saved, He would not have said He did not know them.

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Please explain to me how a lake of fire can be dark?

Ever hear of Black Fire? Smelters will tell you there is such a thing.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Or, as my wife once said to someone else assuming things that aren't in Scripture (but are certainly helpful to twist Scripture to your meaning): Aliens. That's the answer. Scripture doesn't talk about them, but they could certainly explain what happened to the oil. They sucked it all up and used it.

Why not simply stick with what the Scriptures say instead of assuming things that aren't there?

Now, I agree with one of your statements, but not with the sentiment. "Christian" does mean "Christ-like"; that's why I use "saved" and "unsaved". There are many, many saved individuals who are not very Christ-like.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

God was able to create a world with just His voice. He certainly can, and has created a lake of fire in a place of outer darkness for those who choose to live in darkness in this present life.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Or, as my wife once said to someone else assuming things that aren't in Scripture (but are certainly helpful to twist Scripture to your meaning): Aliens. That's the answer. Scripture doesn't talk about them, but they could certainly explain what happened to the oil. They sucked it all up and used it.

Scripture certainly tells us the foolish virgins took no oil with them. As was asked earlier, why say 'with' if the word 'and' was used back when scholarly men such as Wyclyffe translated that passage? It is evident that 'with' is different than 'and' in this passage.

Why not simply stick with what the Scriptures say instead of assuming things that aren't there?

It is amazing! The word 'extra' is not there and I am wrong for saying it is not there, and the words 'took no oil with them' is there and I am wrong for saying they took no oil. Now, who is assuming?

Now, I agree with one of your statements, but not with the sentiment. "Christian" does mean "Christ-like"; that's why I use "saved" and "unsaved". There are many, many saved individuals who are not very Christ-like.

And how can you be sure they are saved? Christ said many would claim to be saved and He would profess that He never knew them. As a matter of fact, the only one who can truly say another is saved is God Himself.

Many do good works and claim to be christian. They worship Christ with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him.

 

[Hope of Glory]

And how can you be sure they are saved? Christ said many would claim to be saved and He would profess that He never knew them. As a matter of fact, the only one who can truly say another is saved is God Himself.

Yet, you seem to want to place the requirement of doing good works to prove they are saved.

Only the individual and God knows.

No works.

Many do good works and claim to be christian. They worship Christ with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him.

I know avowed atheists who do many more good works than most who are Christian. I will not presume to take the place of God and deem them not to be saved.

And, to once again prove you're wrong: Matthew 25:4: αἱ δὲ φρόνιμοι ἔλαβον ἔλαιον ἐν τοῖς ἀγγείοις μετὰ τῶν λαμπάδων ἑαυτῶν.

Let me ask you a question: Do you know what a prepositional phrase is?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Your posting Greek text does not impress me. The fact that the Greek can nowhere in that verse show the wise or prudent took extra oil further proves my stance that the foolish took no oil.

Also the fact that Christ stated He knows those who belong to Him proves that the foolish virgins were in fact, unsaved.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Do you understand what a prepositional phrase is?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Do you understand what no oil means?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Do you understand what 'I know you not' means?

Matthew 25:12 And he answeride, and seide, Treuli Y seie to you, Y knowe you not.

Matthew 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Do you understand what a prepositional phrase is?

Chances are that since you are wrong about the five unsaved virgins, you are also mistaken about the prepositional phrase.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Chances are that since you are wrong about the five unsaved virgins, you are also mistaken about the prepositional phrase.

The absolute asininity of that statement actually made me laugh out loud. Apparently, "mistaken" means "proves SFIC wrong".

Why will you not answer my question? I would guess that you don't know, because if you do, I will prove that you are incorrect in your understanding, of whether they had oil or not, and then would would have to actually discuss what it means for them to run out after having it.

It's much easier to cling to a man-made false notion than it is to discuss what the Scriptures actually say.

This passage clearly states at the beginning that it's about the Kingdom of the Heavens, not about spiritual salvation. It doesn't even say that the Kingdom of the Heavens was likened unto five wise virgins and the Kingdom of the Earth was likened unto five foolish virgins. It doesn't say that the Kingdom of the Heavens was likened unto five wise virgins and the lake of fire to five foolish virgins. It says, "The Kingdom of the Heavens was likened unto ten virgins". Is the Kingdom of the Heavens likened unto unsaved people?

I also clearly states that their lamps were going out, which they cannot be doing if they are not lit, which they cannot be if they don't have oil in the lamp.

Then, if you look at the two prepositional phrases, the wise virgins took oil in their vessels, along with their lamps. (Even the KJV shows this, but not as clearly as most translations.) Others here are not shutting their eyes to the fact that the lamps had oil in them, and are ready to discuss and/or debate the meaning of them running out of oil.

Now, you've shown repeatedly that you don't care what Scripture says if it contradicts the work in the KJV, even if it's the KJV translators. There are none so blind as those who willfully shut their eyes. I've shown you the verse in the Greek, I've shown you the KJV translators' note, yet you want to cling to your pre-conceived notion, instead of looking at what is actually written: "Going out".

YLT: and the foolish said to the prudent, Give us of your oil, because our lamps are going out;

WNT: "'Give us some of your oil,' said the foolish ones to the wise, 'for our torches are going out.'

REV: And, the foolish, unto the prudent, said—Give us of your oil, because, our torches, are going out.

NET: The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.'

ESV: And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'

CLV: Now the stupid said to the prudent, 'Give us of your oil, for our torches are going out.'

ALT: "Then the foolish [ones] said to the wise [ones], 'Give to us out of your* oil, because our lamps are being extinguished.'

Every single translation that I own, except for the KJV, uses a present, middle (some say passive), indicative; it's linear action. Even the KJV translators that you seem to put on a pedestal of infallibility put this in their notes.

Do you understand present tense? Do you understand what a prepositional phrase is? Why do you refuse to answer these two simple questions?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Modern versions mean nothing. The Bible does not say the lamps were going out, only that the lamps 'are gone out... are out. Again, why is it not feasible that the lamps had no oil whatsoever and the foolish were foolishly lighting dry wicks that could not do anything but burn out? Since verse three plainly states they 'took no oil with them', I will believe the Word of God.

As I said, the Bridegroom (Christ) professed that He did not know the foolish virgins which proves they could not have been saved.

It is plain to see, these 5 were lost. No question about it.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Do you understand present tense? Do you understand what a prepositional phrase is? Why do you refuse to answer these two simple questions?

My Bible tells me not to answer certain people according to their folly.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

According to the Word of God, the Lord is coming back for a prepared people.

1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

The foolish virgins were unprepared. They had not the oil of the Holy Spirit. They were not guided by the Light of God's Word.

One can use any modern translation one wants, but it still boils down to the fact the five were unprepared and unsaved.

 

[Hope of Glory]

According to the Word of God, the Lord is coming back for a prepared people.



The foolish virgins were unprepared. They had not the oil of the Holy Spirit. They were not guided by the Light of God's Word.

One can use any modern translation one wants, but it still boils down to the fact the five were unprepared and unsaved.

Until you got to the last two words, you were running right along with what the Bible says.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Modern versions mean nothing.

So, is it safe to assume that you are KJVO, even to the point of rejecting what the KJV translators said?

 

[Hope of Glory]

My Bible tells me not to answer certain people according to their folly.

In other words, the anser is "No, and I don't want to know."

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Now, you've shown repeatedly that you don't care what Scripture says if it contradicts the work in the KJV

No, on the contrary. I have shown repeatedly that I cling to the truth that is in God's Holy Word. I am not going to preach the unsaved are going to heaven. I am not going to preach the lies that one can be saved and not be a part of the kingdom of heaven. I am not going to allow the fiery darts of sin to pursuade me to give up the battle and to conform to lies about God's Holy and precious Word.