OK... I still have these nagging questions:

[TCGreek]

So were you going to clue us in?

And this affects my understanding how? Are you going to make some refrence to obscure shades of destruction that can only be understood by going to the original greek?

1. I'm only revealing the fact that the Greek word behind "destroy" is different than the one used in Matt 10, since you are intent on using Matt 10 to help you will 1 Cor 3.

2. See DHK's #95 post for a good discussion of this word in context.

 

[TCGreek]

5351. phtheiro
Search for G5351 in KJVSL
jqeirw phtheiro fthi'-ro
probably strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil (by any process) or (generally) to ruin (especially figuratively, by moral influences, to deprave):--corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

622. apollumi
Search for G622 in KJVSL
apoollumi apollumi ap-ol'-loo-mee
from 575 and the base of 3639; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:--destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
See Greek 575
See Greek 3639

Seems like there just ain't enough difference between the two to support whatever point you were attempting to make here TC. Yeppers! They sure are different words. But they contextually mean the same thing. So this tidbit and rabbit trail off into Greek-land doesn't help your camp's assertion at all. Matter of fact, it strengthens our position.

1. How does it help your camp?

2. And which nuance are you willing to take over the others? And how do you determine your choice?

 

[James_Newman]

1. I'm only revealing the fact that the Greek word behind "destroy" is different than the one used in Matt 10, since you are intent on using Matt 10 to help you will 1 Cor 3.

And by revealing this you have shed no light on the discussion.

2. See DHK's #95 post for a good discussion of this word in context.

I found it to be full of conjecture. But I'll address it in a reply to come.

 

[TCGreek]

1. I suggest we let the world of Paul inform our interpretation of 1 Cor 3:13-15.

a. In v. 13, fire was used to burn away the dross and leave the precious metal.

b. V.15 pictures a man fleeting as his possessions are going up in flames.

2. Let's now look behind the imageries to get the nuggets of truth.

 

[James_Newman]

To get the meaning of the word we must look at the context.
First go back to verse 10.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
--Paul here is giving us a picture of an earthly building. The foundation is laid first. Then the builders build upon that foundation until the building (in this case a temple) is finished.

In verse 11 he states that building that he has in mind is a spiritual one whose foundation is Christ. We, as a church, must build upon the foundation of Christ. He relates that to the JSOC, a future event. What we do now, in our building in the church on earth, will affect our rewards in heaven.
Then he comes back to his earthly structure of a building again in verse 16 and 17.

And if what we do now defiles the temple that we are to be building?

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
--The builders are building the temple (the church). They are the saved. The Greek words for defile and destroy are exactly the same. Literally it says, If any defile the temple of God, him shall God defile, OR
If any man destroy the temple of God, him shall God destroy.
The destroyer shall be destroyed.
It seems that Paul is drawing a comparison between earthly and spiritual. If one is trying to build an earthly temple and another tries to destroy it, his life will be destroyed physically.
If one is trying to destroy God's temple (the church) and another tries to destroy it, his life will be destroyed eternally.

Where do you find this in scripture? It seems doesn't carry as much weight as thus sayeth the Lord.

This lends credence to the view that the false teacher would be an unsaved person, for a believer cannot lose his salvation. There were many false teachers gone out into the world at that time. The disciples were warned not to follow after them.

Or it lends credence to the view that there is a type of destruction that a saved person can experience at the judgment seat of Christ that doesn't involve losing eternal salvation.

The next two verses seem to verify this view:
1 Corinthians 3:18-19 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
--This is a description of unsaved false teachers.

If any man among you... wouldn't that be saved folks in the church? The whole reasoning is circular, as AV1611Jim I believe pointed out earlier. 'There can't be destruction because they are saved. They can't be saved because they are destroyed.'

 

[James_Newman]

1. I suggest we let the world of Paul inform our interpretation of 1 Cor 3:13-15.

a. In v. 13, fire was used to burn away the dross and leave the precious metal.

b. V.15 pictures a man fleeting as his possessions are going up in flames.

2. Let's now look behind the imageries to get the nuggets of truth.

Why can't we just get the whole truth and be done with it? Why are we always grasping for nuggets?

 

[av1611jim]

1. How does it help your camp?

2. And which nuance are you willing to take over the others? And how do you determine your choice?

Right back atcha bro!

Running to 'Greek-land' is pointless. That is my point.

You can run to 'Greek-land' all the live long day yet you would still solve nothing here. Stick to the English since God has given US that particular language to communicate with each other and in His wisdom has seen fit to cause Scripture to be translated into our mother tongue so we can know what He said. K?

Now, back to our program.........:1_grouphug:

 

[TCGreek]

Why can't we just get the whole truth and be done with it? Why are we always grasping for nuggets?

1. As have been ably pointed out, at the JSOC, what we have contributed in the building of his structure, will be revealed for what it really is.

2. The fire is figurative as it stands for what reveals the true nature of our contribution at the JSOC.

 

[TCGreek]

Right back atcha bro!

Running to 'Greek-land' is pointless. That is my point.

You can run to 'Greek-land' all the live long day yet you would still solve nothing here. Stick to the English since God has given US that particular language to communicate with each other and in His wisdom has seen fit to cause Scripture to be translated into our mother tongue so we can know what He said. K?

Now, back to our program.........:1_grouphug:

Then your wrestling with the meaning of aionios and such like, is pointless by virtue of your pronouncement.

 

[James_Newman]

1. As have been ably pointed out, at the JSOC, what we have contributed in the building of his structure, will be revealed for what it really is.

2. The fire is figurative as it stands for what reveals the true nature of our contribution at the JSOC.

I don't think the fire is as figurative as you think it is. I think God has a fire that can try your works. But thats aside the point. The destruction is not figurative.

 

[av1611jim]

1. I suggest we let the world of Paul inform our interpretation of 1 Cor 3:13-15.

a. In v. 13, fire was used to burn away the dross and leave the precious metal.

This is crazy talk. There ain't no smelter in this verse. This is God who IS a 'consuming fire'.

b. V.15 pictures a man fleeting as his possessions are going up in flames.

This is crazy talk. There ain't no possessions in this verse. It is a man's WORK. And he ain't 'fleeting' (sic) from anything. There will be no 'place of repentance' on that day.

2. Let's now look behind the imageries to get the nuggets of truth.

This is crazy talk. You can look behind all the paintings in the gallery looking for lost gold if'n you want to but the treasure is right there in plain sight. God will reveal what work of a man is worthless and what is priceless.

:wavey: :wavey:

What does the man lose? And what does he receive? To find out you must look elsewhere.

 

[TCGreek]

I don't think the fire is as figurative as you think it is. I think God has a fire that can try your works. But thats aside the point. The destruction is not figurative.

1. Then if the fire is not figurative in this context, neither are the gold, silver, precious stones or the wood, hay, straw, are figurative.

2. I'm willing to respect the figurative language of Paul.

 

[TCGreek]

:wavey: :wavey:

What does the man lose? And what does he receive? To find out you must look elsewhere.

1. Paul says if the work remains he will receive a reward (v.14).

2. And if his work is burned up, he will suffer loss of not getting his intended reward. The contrast in there.

3. We don't have to go anywhere. Paul gives us all the info we need.

 

[av1611jim]

Then your wrestling with the meaning of aionios and such like, is pointless by virtue of your pronouncement.

Frankly my friend, I DON'T wrestle with that word or any other Greek words. I ain't GREEK!:BangHead:

You see, it is like this. I am an American who speaks English. I trust my God to have given me His words in my own language that I might KNOW Him and the FELLOWSHIP of His sufferings. Therefore, I do not need to run to "Greek-land" since God did it already for me.:thumbs:

Another really neat thing God has done for me is He has provided His Holy Spirit to enlighten my understanding only so far as I am willing to yield myself to His guidance. As I yield MYSELF, He it is Who teaches me what His words mean. He makes it very simple, too! I don't even have to 'rassle' with meanings and such like things. He even provides understanding as I fear Him and seek after wisdom as one seeketh after gold.

Of course, I trust you recognized all the Scripture references in that last paragraph so that I need not give you the 'street addresses', right? If I am right in this assessment then why is it so hard for you guys to recognize such similar references when we speak of these other things? Could it be because you are UNWILLING to look? One will only recieve such light as he is willing to respond to the light he has already been given.

 

[TCGreek]

Frankly my friend, I DON'T wrestle with that word or any other Greek words. I ain't GREEK!:BangHead:

You see, it is like this. I am an American who speaks English. I trust my God to have given me His words in my own language that I might KNOW Him and the FELLOWSHIP of His sufferings. Therefore, I do not need to run to "Greek-land" since God did it already for me.:thumbs:

Another really neat thing God has done for me is He has provided His Holy Spirit to enlighten my understanding only so far as I am willing to yield myself to His guidance. As I yield MYSELF, He it is Who teaches me what His words mean. He makes it very simple, too! I don't even have to 'rassle' with meanings and such like things. He even provides understanding as I fear Him and seek after wisdom as one seeketh after gold.

Of course, I trust you recognized all the Scripture references in that last paragraph so that I need not give you the 'street addresses', right? If I am right in this assessment then why is it so hard for you guys to recognize such similar references when we speak of these other things? Could it be because you are UNWILLING to look? One will only recieve such light as he is willing to respond to the light he has already been given.

1. Well, do a search into these discussions and you will see Hope of Glory working with the Greek aionios and other related terms.

2. Then your post #100 is pointless by your reckoning.

 

[av1611jim]

1. Paul says if the work remains he will receive a reward (v.14).

2. And if his work is burned up, he will suffer loss of not getting his intend reward. The contrast in there.

3. We don't ahve to go anywhere. Paul gives us all the info we need.

Very good then. We are on a roll here. Now stay with me please. :thumbs:

1. WHAT is the reward?

 

[DHK]

Frankly my friend, I DON'T wrestle with that word or any other Greek words. I ain't GREEK!:BangHead:

You see, it is like this. I am an American who speaks English. I trust my God to have given me His words in my own language

But Jim, are you not one of those who has used the term " aionios life'?

 

[TCGreek]

Very good then. We are on a roll here. Now stay with me please. :thumbs:

1. WHAT is the reward?

According to your #111 post, it seems to me that Paul didn't answer those questions? Are you saying that he answered them?

 

[DHK]

But Jim, are you not one of those who has used the term " aionios life'?

If not, what shall I tell those nations that I go to that don't speak English. If you look in my profile you will see I am a missionary, and I do go to some countries that don't speak English.
Do I need to teach them Shakespearean English before they can get saved?

 

[av1611jim]

1. Well, do a search into these discussions and you will see Hope of Glory working with the Greek aionios and other related terms.

2. Then your post #100 is pointless by your reckoning.

I am familiar with Hope of Glory and his work in that area, having read most of his posts on this subject. I assume then when you used the word "you" that it was not a personal reference even though it was directed to me?

Secondly, my post #100 had a point which evidently you missed. How about you take you own advice, brother, and go back to the context of that post and see what was going on when I posted? K?

This carnival ride is making me dizzy!:wavey: