OK... I still have these nagging questions:

[skypair]

No doubt? Why does physical death fit the bill? Man can physically kill us, God tells us not to fear physical death. Would he get physically killed and then crowned in glory? Ouch!

"For the destruction of the flesh that the spirit might be saved in the day of Christ." That's what Paul said anyway.

skypair

 

[av1611jim]

1. Then you should have stayed away from Greek land. As I said I have no problem in going to Greek land. In fact, I love Greek land. God has given us it to plow and reap the benefits.

2. Furthermore, you went on to comment that the meaning of those words strengthen your point. The only how a person can know that is through some reasoning on both sides of the issue. So you didn't just go to confirm that the words are different.

3. I brought up the two different Greek words because it is common for the ME camp to build doctrine on the differences of words. The mere fact that they were two different Greek word, presented a problem for the ME camp.

4. BTW, you were not obligated to post #100.

Yeah. Ok. Whatever massah. You win this round. :BangHead: It ain't worth my time any longer.

 

[James_Newman]

There is nothing that we do that defiles the temple (building). You are reading that in there. It says "if any man defile the temple of God." It does not say, "IF WE defile the temple of God." I do not believe that is speaking of WE believers. It is speaking of false teachers. Remeber that if you look in the Greek the words defile and destroy are interchangeable. They are the exact same word. If one defiles the temple that one will be defiled. If one destroys the temple that one will be destroyed. The words mean the same.

Then explain why building the temple with wood hay and stubble is not defiling the temple. Why would God judge our works that we build upon the foundation if it were not possible to defile the temple?

I find it right here in this chapter--in the words, the context, the very picture that Paul is drawing for us.

The context is judging believers.

That is reading into Scripture something that isn't there, that also contradicts the rest of Scripture. Paul is not teaching that. We "are not appointed unto wrath." That is a clear statement of Scripture. Chastisement ends at death, and does not carry into heaven or past that time. Nowhere does the Scriptures teach that.

Just because you are not appointed unto wrath doesn't mean you can't experience wrath. All that says is that it is not God's will for you to experience wrath.

It doesn't say "If any man among you"
It simply says "If any man." That means "any man."

1 Corinthians 3:18
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

 

[TCGreek]

Only in that steel trap you call a mind.:wavey: (joking)

It has yet to be proven it does NOT apply. It stays until unequivocal proof is given. So far it has not. We have been consigned to prove the whole doctrine using one and only one verse at a time. Yet you IGNORE our plea that you prove the Trinity for example by the same methods you require of us.

Hardly equitable nor is it reasonable.

If 1 Cor 3:15-17 is so airtight for the ME camp, why are there no responses to posts 111, 123, 125 and 133.

 

[av1611jim]

According to your #111 post, it seems to me that Paul didn't answer those questions? Are you saying that he answered them?

Yes. I am saying Paul has answered those questions. But you must seek elsewhere for that answer. Precept upon precept, line upon line, etc. Familiar with that one?

It is YOUR OWN camp who decries building a whole doctrine on one passage! Silly goose.

 

[James_Newman]

Jim --- our body is the temple of God.

He means that there is a sin unto death, Jim.

skypair

The temple in ch 3 is the church.

 

[TCGreek]

Yes. I am saying Paul has answered those questions. But you must seek elsewhere for that answer. Precept upon precept, line upon line, etc. Familiar with that one?

It is YOUR OWN camp who decries building a whole doctrine on one passage! Silly goose.

What/who is a "Silly goose?"

 

[av1611jim]

If 1 Cor 3:15-17 is so airtight for the ME camp, why are there no responses to posts 111, 123, 125 and 133.

Ya think maybe that is because there are apporximately two posts showing up in this thread every minute? Ya think?

Ya think maybe it takes a bit more that 60 seconds to type out a reply to each post? Ya think? Huh? Ya think?:BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: Ya think maybe some get lost on this carnival ride? Ya think????

 

[skypair]

Since the Bible teaches that Christ is not divided, and the Church is the Body of Christ, then the ones who are trying to divide the Body are not saved, but are 'certain men crept in unawares... ungodly men...'

I'm gonna disagree to this extent --- we can't know if the divisive are a) unbelievers or b) deluded believers. We may all be saved and have the unity of the Spirit but that doesn't guarantee that we will all be unified in the knowledge and faith of Christ (Eph 4).

skypair

 

[av1611jim]

What/who is a "Silly goose?"

I am now convinced you are no longer interested in dialogue. I try to "lighten" things up and you ..................................................................
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........................................................................
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Nevermind. You sir are really close to being only the second person in my history here to gain the dubious honor of being on my iggy list. Please. Be a bit reasonable, huh?

 

[TCGreek]

Then I guess the reward must be figurative also. Hey, so is the judgment seat of Christ!

1. There're some who might think that it is a literal judgment that we see at a courthouse. But I think that is a stretch, and we not appreciating how metaphors work.

2. The JSOC simply means that Christ is our appointed judge and we have an appointment with him.

3. BTW, 1 Cor 3 is the text under consideration.

 

[skypair]

Why should we not compare spiritual things with spiritual and interpret Paul's warning in light of Christ's in Matthew 10?

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Because Jesus warning is clearly to the unsaved here.

skypair

 

[av1611jim]

I'm gonna disagree to this extent --- we can't know if the divisive are a) unbelievers or b) deluded believers. We may all be saved and have the unity of the Spirit but that doesn't guarantee that we will all be unified in the knowledge and faith of Christ (Eph 4).

skypair

Amen brother. Nor does it guarantee that all will be unified in doctrine. Mid-trib, post-trib, pre-trib, no-trib, pre-mil, post-mil, a-mil, etc. But all are Christ's who believe as it is written.

 

[TCGreek]

I am now convinced you are no longer interested in dialogue. I try to "lighten" things up and you ..................................................................
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........................................................................
........................................................................
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Nevermind. You sir are really close to being only the second person in my history here to gain the dubious honor of being on my iggy list. Please. Be a bit reasonable, huh?

1. No need to get heated if no harm was intended.

2. Personally, I don't use those terms, and I have to wonder when others use them in a discussion with me. That is all.

 

[skypair]

"But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 8:12​

RUFUS --- these "children of the kingdom" are JEWS. "Weeping and gnashing" is for unbelieving OT JEWS.

"Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 22:13

What did I just say?? Oh yeah --- these are JEWS. "Weeping and gnashing" is for unbelieving OT JEWS.

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 25:30

Say again? these "children of the kingdom" are JEWS. "Weeping and gnashing" is for OT JEWS. How is it you continually condemn the GENTILE CHURCH to the punishment unbelieving OT JEWS?? Oh yeah -- you don't know any better. "Servants" are OT Jews.

skypair

 

[skypair]

Good points! In each appearance in scripture, the useage is either parabolic or practical.

That's what I see.

Now applying the parabolic uses to the "kingdom of heaven" parables, we get quite a different "picture," don't you think? In fact, I love it how in Mt 20, Jesus makes all those looking for work out to be field hands even though 4/5's of them were Israel. But in that parable, notice that those hired in the 11th hour are called in and paid first, 20:9!! That's US!! At that rapture!!

skypair

For Lacy -- these posts just keep getting "buried" into these long threads. :BangHead:

skypair

 

[av1611jim]

Skypair;
Servants are not always unbelieving Jews. Paul, himself a Jew but a believer, referred to himself many times as a servant. He also referred to gentile believers as servants. Therefore, to "rightly divide" this passage by saying it is exclusively for Jews is in error. But you and Rufus continue on. I will try to stay out of it. And much more dizzy ride is happening elsewhere in this thread for me. See ya later bro!

 

[James_Newman]

Because Jesus warning is clearly to the unsaved here.

skypair

What would make you say that, other than the belief that God would never threaten a disobedient believer with Hell?

 

[av1611jim]

1. No need to get heated if no harm was intended.

2. Personally, I don't use those terms, and I have to wonder when others use them in a discussion with me. That is all.

OK. No foul no harm.

Moving on. Are you now willing to concede that for this doctrine to be established in any reasonable manner one must take a number of passages into account and thereby establishing its veracity in the whole of Scripture, or not?

For to limit ANY doctrine by ONE passage, well, it just isn't wise at all. Agreed? If not then this is a futile effort on BOTH your part and ours.

 

[skypair]

The temple in ch 3 is the church.

Nah. Go back and rethink that. If that were so, the Catholic church would have been destroyed long ago.

skypair