OK... I still have these nagging questions:

[Hope of Glory]

Forgive for assuming that everyone in the ME camp shares the same notes.

Not a problem.

Although it's not something you have done, there have been some on here who have told me that I need to get out of the Greek, then told others they need to get into the Greek. Same people have told me I need to look at the way the KJV is written, while telling others they need to get rid of the KJV. Same people have told me I need to read commentaries, while telling others they need to quit reading commentaries.

Different people have been led to the same truth by different means.

Some are KJVO (although not the cultic type of KJVO), others are not.

One thing I have learned, and this has been hammered home by discourse with these individuals, is that context and grammar will never contradict, and only support one another. So, if you see works involved, it's not talking about spiritual salvation, and the grammar will support this.

Or, you can decide that works aren't really works and age-lasting is really forever and on and on and on.

Now, this mini-tirade is not necessarily aimed at you specifically. You have been consistent, as much as I can remember, even though we disagree on many things. I also appreciate the fact that when you misquote something or quote a misquote, you will correct it.

This is an example of that, and I appreciate it.

 

[lbaker]

You have made a step in the right direction. He is dealing with the brethren. Are they not the "brethren" who could "suffer loss?" But be saved "so as by fire?"

Yes, of course they are, IMHO anyway.

But, where is the "1000 year exiled to hell during the literal 1000 year millenial kingdom" smoking gun?

I'm still waiting on it to show up.

Surely there must be at least one passage somewhere that unequivocally supports this doctrine, something on the order of the passages we have for the Virgin birth, or salvation by faith, or the deity of Christ, or the Resurrection. For any of these doctrines one can point to any one of a number of verses and firmly establish it. Where is the verse that does that for ME, or KA, if you prefer?

Les

 

[av1611jim]

Yes, of course they are, IMHO anyway.

But, where is the "1000 year exiled to hell during the literal 1000 year millenial kingdom" smoking gun?

I'm still waiting on it to show up.

Surely there must be at least one passage somewhere that unequivocally supports this doctrine, something on the order of the passages we have for the Virgin birth, or salvation by faith, or the deity of Christ, or the Resurrection. For any of these doctrines one can point to any one of a number of verses and firmly establish it. Where is the verse that does that for ME, or KA, if you prefer?

Les

As I have pointed out earlier in this thread, not ALL KA believers hold to the understanding to which you are looking for. Personally, I do not KNOW where the unfaithful believer is sent to. I believe it is outer darkness but the jury is still out as to what that means, (for me anyway.)

However; with that being said, I must remind you and others of my brethren in your camp that Paul NEVER taught the Virgin Birth either. So, must we say that that particular truth is for "unbelieving Jews" since it is only taught in the Gospels and the OT? Why not? Whatever your answer may be; you must also remember that it can also apply to KA truth. Was the Virgin Birth ONLY for the unbelieving Jews? Of course not. Then why relegate truths we find in the Gospel teaching KA to "unbelieving Jews"?

Do you now see how it is that we of the KA camp find your camp's constant tirade against the Gospel's teaching of KA as being highly unreasonable and blatantly suspect?

We have given verses plainly illustrating the KA truth as it applies to the JSOC, but your camp wishes to deny it by re-interpreting it to mean something which the plain reading and the context flatly deny.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

If the given verses plainly illustrated the 'KA truth' as it applies to the JSOC, then all would see it.

Truth is, your so-called 'KA truth' is HoGwash and not truth at all.

 

[av1611jim]

If the given verses plainly illustrated the 'KA truth' as it applies to the JSOC, then all would see it.

Truth is, your so-called 'KA truth' is HoGwash and not truth at all.

Well..... ain't that a sly way to insult a dear and decent brother in Christ? HoGwash?

Standing firm in christ....you really NEED a new name. You certainly are NOT in Christ saying things like that in such an underhanded manner.

 

[npetreley]

If the given verses plainly illustrated the 'KA truth' as it applies to the JSOC, then all would see it.

Truth is, your so-called 'KA truth' is HoGwash and not truth at all.

Amen. Keep the faith, SFiC.

 

[Amy.G]

Well..... ain't that a sly way to insult a dear and decent brother in Christ? HoGwash?

Standing firm in christ....you really NEED a new name. You certainly are NOT in Christ saying things like that in such an underhanded manner.

Are you implying that SFIC is not saved? If someone is NOT in Christ, they are not saved.

SFIC is a brother. He IS in Christ.

 

[Accountable]

If the given verses plainly illustrated the 'KA truth' as it applies to the JSOC, then all would see it.

Truth is, your so-called 'KA truth' is HoGwash and not truth at all.

I thought this was debate, not mudslinging.
Then again, this is the tactics politicians loose when they having nothing to say.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Ya know, I had to take an extended vacation for questioning someone's salvation here on the BB.

Seems now av is questioning mine.

And all because I reveal the truth of a false doctrine.

 

[Amy.G]

Ya know, I had to take an extended vacation for questioning someone's salvation here on the BB.

Seems now av is questioning mine.

And all because I reveal the truth of a false doctrine.

That's the way I see it. Unless he doesn't really know what being "in Christ" means.

 

[Amy.G]

I thought this was debate, not mudslinging.
Then again, this is the tactics politicians loose when they having nothing to say.

Have you ever been face to face with a false doctrine? Maybe JW's? Buddism? Scientology?

Did you have nothing to say?

 

[Hope of Glory]

Are you implying that SFIC is not saved? If someone is NOT in Christ, they are not saved.

SFIC is a brother. He IS in Christ.

Not everyone who is saved is in Christ.

But, everyone who is in Christ is saved.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Not everyone who is saved is in Christ.

But, everyone who is in Christ is saved.

A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Not everyone who is saved is in Christ.

But, everyone who is in Christ is saved.

Another of the false teachings of ME proponents! When will they ever cease?

 

[DHK]

Gentlemen, Gentlemen, and sister.
Please post in grace giving honor (respect) one to another. I would hate to close this thread down for the sake (or reason) of "mudslinging."

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Not slinging mud here, DHK. Although I was accused of it.

 

[av1611jim]

If the given verses plainly illustrated the 'KA truth' as it applies to the JSOC, then all would see it.

Truth is, your so-called 'KA truth' is HoGwash and not truth at all.

Tell me again SFIC how this is NOT mudslinging. This is clearly and underhanded reference to my brother Hope of Glory in your "HoGwash" comment.

"If ANY man be in Christ he is a new creature. Behold OLD things are passed away, behold ALL things are become new".

Would this passage include your speach to a brother?

You owe him an apology. You can oppose this doctrine without the use of such evil railing upon a brother.

 

[skypair]

The KoH parables most times if not all times are addressed to believers. I lost the specifics in this dizzy thread. It was moving so fast there for a while. Which passage do you say is NOT to believers?

They are ALL to be understood by believers. However, the subject is not always believers. Take the "tares," "birds," or "bad fish" in Mt 13, the "goats" in Mt 25, etc.

Now when you read them, consider that Jesus said in John 15:15 that He would no longer call His disciples "servants" but "friends" --- and this before the cross. Now He calls us "brethren!"

So go back and rightly read OT Jews for "servants." Some are believers/"wheat" and some are not/"tares." And so when a "servant" is sent to hell, understand that it is an unbelieving OT Jew.

NOW show me a church beleiver going to hell for 1000 years.

Got it?

skypair

 

[skypair]

QUESTION just for you.....

Do you believe that you will hear well done, good and faithful servant?
Will any Christian hear these words uttered?

No, I don't. We may hear them uttered as we may judge Israel (or Mt 19:28 may just refer to Jesus disciples though Judaas wouldn't be there).

You are referring to Mt 25:21. Nor will I be "ruler over many things" but "judge angels ... and men."Servants obey the commands of our Lord -- we obey His Spirit, right?

There's an interesting parable in this regard where the servant comes in from the field and expects to be fed by the master. But the master says, "Serve me. Think not that you shall eat when you have only done what you were commanded." To me, this refers to the fact that the OT believers will come into the MK and still have to serve Christ and then afterward they will eat their meal.

skypair

 

[Rufus_1611]

Tell me again SFIC how this is NOT mudslinging. This is clearly and underhanded reference to my brother Hope of Glory in your "HoGwash" comment.

"If ANY man be in Christ he is a new creature. Behold OLD things are passed away, behold ALL things are become new".

Would this passage include your speach to a brother?

You owe him an apology. You can oppose this doctrine without the use of such evil railing upon a brother.

This is actually an improvement on their debating tactics. At least SFIC didn't tell HoG to go castrate himself and he didn't use the words "heresy", "heretic" or "cult" in the whole post :applause: