OK... I still have these nagging questions:

[TCGreek]

Does Paul build on the foundation of Christ or not? How can you understand Paul without understanding the underlying teachings that he claims to build upon?

1. According to the context of 1 Cor 3, the foundation Paul has in mind is Jesus Christ as the foundation on which a structure is built.

2. Paul, however, is not saying that to understand him you must go to Jesus' teachings. This must be read into the text.

 

[DHK]

Does Paul build on the foundation of Christ or not? How can you understand Paul without understanding the underlying teachings that he claims to build upon?

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
--Of course he does. He states that he does. And then he goes on and tells how he does without going back and regurgitating the parables of Christ.

 

[av1611jim]

If I accept your reasoning, But I only quoted what you said.Jim, then I must also accept the SDA doctrine of "annihilation of the wicked" another form of punishment, and the universalist's doctrine that everyone will be saved (including Satan) and thus there will be "no punishment." This is plain silly and you know it. There is no comparison.
That is not circular reasoning. It is setting up a standard by the Word of God, and using the Word of God as the final authority in all matters of faith and practice. I must be able to "rightly divide the word of truth. I applaud your desire to be obedient to scripture and "rightly divide". But therein lies the problem. Many sects within Christendom will claim that they "rightly divide" but it cannot be true that they all "rightly divide" otherwise "rightly dividing" only leads to mass confusion when it should lead to mature understanding. It has becoome a mantra of the Dispensationalist that they are the only one who "rightly divide" and this mantra has become a source of arrogance and pride on the part of many within that camp. Need I point to Ruckman for illustration or should I also point to Herb Evans?
In any case, DHK, you need to show how it is that you can say "God may punish both the saved and the unsaved anyway He likes because He is God" yet deny this very truth by saying He WILL not punish at the JSOC.

Remember this fact. At the JSOC the Bible says EVERY man will RECEIVE good or bad according to what he has done. Receiving is NOT witholding. Witholding implies denying something from someone. Receiving implies giving something to someone.

Sir, with respect and earnestness, I ask you to consider the contradiction you have placed yourself into.

Either God CAN AND WILL punish whomever as He sees fit or He WILL NOT.

 

[lbaker]

"But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 8:12

"Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 22:13

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 25:30​

I thought we were sticking to 1st Cor. 3, for a while at least, until we got it all hashed out.

But, since you brought them up - I don't see anything in those passages that says anything like "in the 1000 year earthly millenial reign."

Les

 

[DHK]

Remember this fact. At the JSOC the Bible says EVERY man will RECEIVE good or bad according to what he has done. Receiving is NOT witholding. Witholding implies denying something from someone. Receiving implies giving something to someone.

Sir, with respect and earnestness, I ask you to consider the contradiction you have placed yourself into.

Either God CAN AND WILL punish whomever as He sees fit or He WILL NOT.

I don't know where you got your quote from. Not everything in that quote is mine. Therefore it is confusing to me.

 

[James_Newman]

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
--Of course he does. He states that he does. And then he goes on and tells how he does without going back and regurgitating the parables of Christ.

Regurgitating?? Anyway, why do you suppose this is? Is it not because you should already know what Christ said and taught? If Paul talks of distruction and doesn't explain what that destruction is, should we assume that it is a mystery, or can we possibly look to Christ's teaching and find out that destruction can include the destruction of the soul? Would that make too much sense? Or what?

 

[James_Newman]

I thought we were sticking to 1st Cor. 3, for a while at least, until we got it all hashed out.

But, since you brought them up - I don't see anything in those passages that says anything like "in the 1000 year earthly millenial reign."

Les

I just didn't want to get bogged down in a pointless compare/contrast with 1cor 6. If you can define what Paul meant by destruction, I don't care where you go in scripture to find it. Even if Paul himself defined it in chapter 6. If that destruction occurs at the judgment seat of Christ, then it would be during the millennial reign, wouldn't it?

 

[DHK]

Regurgitating?? Anyway, why do you suppose this is? Is it not because you should already know what Christ said and taught? If Paul talks of distruction and doesn't explain what that destruction is, should we assume that it is a mystery, or can we possibly look to Christ's teaching and find out that destruction can include the destruction of the soul? Would that make too much sense? Or what?

No, because the one has nothing to do with the other.

 

[James_Newman]

No, because the one has nothing to do with the other.

Says you, but please give me a list of scripture that does have to do with it, so I can finally understand what destruction means in 1cor chapter 3. Why is it so hard to explain it from scripture if Paul says he is feeding the corinthians with milk? You ought to be able to find some milk in the scriptures, oughtn't you?

 

[TCGreek]

1. For what it is worth: the word for "destroy" in 1 Cor 3:17 is phtheiro, which is a different from apollumi, which is used in Matt.10:28.

2. I know the ME camp loves to build their theology on the fact that different words are used. Well, 1 Cor 3 and Matt 10, should not be of much help to you.

 

[av1611jim]

I don't know where you got your quote from. Not everything in that quote is mine. Therefore it is confusing to me.

Quit playing around. You know what part of your comment I was quoting. Don't be coy.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I don't know where you got your quote from. Not everything in that quote is mine. Therefore it is confusing to me.

As is their doctrine.

 

[James_Newman]

1. For what it is worth: the word for "destroy" in 1 Cor 3:17 is phtheiro, which is a different from apollumi, which is used in Matt.10:28.

2. I know the ME camp loves to build their theology on the fact that different words are used. Well, 1 Cor 3 and Matt 10, should not be of much help to you.

Whatever you are saying, it's greek to me.

 

[lbaker]

I just didn't want to get bogged down in a pointless compare/contrast with 1cor 6. If you can define what Paul meant by destruction, I don't care where you go in scripture to find it. Even if Paul himself defined it in chapter 6. If that destruction occurs at the judgment seat of Christ, then it would be during the millennial reign, wouldn't it?

No, not necessarily, if there isn't a literal, earthly, millenial reign. At this point I'm not assuming there is any literal, earthly, millenial reign to be excluded from.

It is up to you to prove that, along with proving just what punishment Paul is talking about, since it is your contention that Paul is referring to 1,000 years in hell in 1st Cor. 3.

;-)

Les

 

[DHK]

No, because the one has nothing to do with the other.

To get the meaning of the word we must look at the context.
First go back to verse 10.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
--Paul here is giving us a picture of an earthly building. The foundation is laid first. Then the builders build upon that foundation until the building (in this case a temple) is finished.

In verse 11 he states that building that he has in mind is a spiritual one whose foundation is Christ. We, as a church, must build upon the foundation of Christ. He relates that to the JSOC, a future event. What we do now, in our building in the church on earth, will affect our rewards in heaven.
Then he comes back to his earthly structure of a building again in verse 16 and 17.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
--The builders are building the temple (the church). They are the saved. The Greek words for defile and destroy are exactly the same. Literally it says, If any defile the temple of God, him shall God defile, OR
If any man destroy the temple of God, him shall God destroy.
The destroyer shall be destroyed.
It seems that Paul is drawing a comparison between earthly and spiritual. If one is trying to build an earthly temple and another tries to destroy it, his life will be destroyed physically.
If one is trying to destroy God's temple (the church) and another tries to destroy it, his life will be destroyed eternally. This lends credence to the view that the false teacher would be an unsaved person, for a believer cannot lose his salvation. There were many false teachers gone out into the world at that time. The disciples were warned not to follow after them.

The next two verses seem to verify this view:
1 Corinthians 3:18-19 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
--This is a description of unsaved false teachers.

 

[TCGreek]

1. You ask for an understanding of what "destruction" means in 1 Cor 3.

2. Letting you know that two different Greek words are used in both 1Cor 3 and Matt 10 is a start, since you are intent on importing Matt 10 to help with your understanding of 1 Cor 3.

 

[James_Newman]

No, not necessarily, if there isn't a literal, earthly, millenial reign. At this point I'm not assuming there is any literal, earthly, millenial reign to be excluded from.

It is up to you to prove that, along with proving just what punishment Paul is talking about, since it is your contention that Paul is referring to 1,000 years in hell in 1st Cor. 3.

;-)

Les

And you want me to prove all that from 1 Cor 3 to boot?

 

[James_Newman]

1. You ask for an understanding of what "destruction" means in 1 Cor 3.

So were you going to clue us in?

2. Letting you know that two different Greek words are used in both 1Cor 3 and Matt 10 is a start, since you are intent on importing Matt 10 to help with your understanding of 1 Cor 3.

And this affects my understanding how? Are you going to make some refrence to obscure shades of destruction that can only be understood by going to the original greek?

 

[lbaker]

And you want me to prove all that from 1 Cor 3 to boot?

That passage was in the list of scriptures that were supposed to prove the literal, 1000 year millenial kingdom and the 1000 years in hell as exclusion from that kingdom.

So, my undestanding was that you could do that, or at least show that the passage was referring to ME.

I think you may have overstated your case.

Les

 

[av1611jim]

5351. phtheiro
Search for G5351 in KJVSL
jqeirw phtheiro fthi'-ro
probably strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil (by any process) or (generally) to ruin (especially figuratively, by moral influences, to deprave):--corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

622. apollumi
Search for G622 in KJVSL
apoollumi apollumi ap-ol'-loo-mee
from 575 and the base of 3639; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:--destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
See Greek 575
See Greek 3639

Seems like there just ain't enough difference between the two to support whatever point you were attempting to make here TC. Yeppers! They sure are different words. But they contextually mean the same thing. So this tidbit and rabbit trail off into Greek-land doesn't help your camp's assertion at all. Matter of fact, it strengthens our position.