OK... I still have these nagging questions:

[standingfirminChrist]

So you are admitting that your father is a wicked and cruel god? Wow! Least I didn't have to come out with questioning your salvation.

 

[Accountable]

This thread is moving fast! Sorry, with both points, someone beat me to it!

At least it seems like some here are in unity! God is good!

 

[Lacy Evans]

This is the part that you cannot understand isn't it.
rewards for things done... It doesn't say
punsihment for things done...but rather rewards.
You people read into that passage something that is not there.

How many times must we post these Scriptures that absolutely disprove that idea before you finally get it? You are absolutely wrong. You don't go to the Bible for your definitions, but rather defne terms according to your own presuppositions.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

What reward will you receive for the bad things? And don't say nothing because that would directly contradict this verse.

Luke 23:39-41
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

2 Timothy 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:

Hebrews 2:1-3
1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

2 Peter 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

And her is a wonderful OT example of the reward of a loving God who hates sin. I understand here he is rewarding his enemies, but the Biblical word reward is neither negative or positive. It is conditional.

Deuteronomy 32:39-42
39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.
42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source re·ward

(rĭ-wôrd') Pronunciation Key
n.

1. Something given or received in recompense for worthy behavior or in retribution for evil acts.

 

[Rufus_1611]

So you are admitting that your father is a wicked and cruel god? Wow! Least I didn't have to come out with questioning your salvation.

No, that would be you and DHK calling God wicked and cruel. May He have mercy on you both for your foolish statements.

 

[Lacy Evans]

So you are admitting that your father is a wicked and cruel god? Wow! Least I didn't have to come out with questioning your salvation.

Yeah I got a comment . . .uh . . .what?

I said God would throw the little unbelieving Grandmother into the LOF. You think that is wicked and cruel?

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I challenge you to answer this verse with something else besides a sarcastic sophomoric comment.

 

[Accountable]

My arguments have all been positive. As a matter of fact, I am positive through the authority of God's Word that ME teaching is began when some preacher chose to believe the lies of satan instead of God's Holy Word.

What arguments????????

All I've seen over the last several pages is more comical than argumentative! All I hear is false accusations and not much bible tp back it up.

Arguments?
The jury is still out on this one.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

My God will not throw His Children into hell or outer darkness. When Christ presents the saved ones to the Father, He will present them blameless. Blameless means no punishment.

I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and [in] all knowledge; Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, [that ye may be] blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:4-8)

Christ will confirm us. He will present us blameless before the Father.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Yeah I got a comment . . .uh . . .what?

I said God would throw the little unbelieving Grandmother into the LOF. You think that is wicked and cruel?


I challenge you to answer this verse with something else besides a sarcastic sophomoric comment.

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [to bear it], neither yet now are ye able. (1 Corinthians 3:2)

 

[Lacy Evans]

My God will not throw His Children into hell or outer darkness. When Christ presents the saved ones to the Father, He will present them blameless. Blameless means no punishment.

Christ will confirm us. He will present us blameless before the Father.

So who did he threaten to bodily throw into hell in Matt 10:28? Not an unbeliever's. Their body is in the grave or the sea until hell is already destroyed in the LOF.

 

[Accountable]

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [to bear it], neither yet now are ye able. (1 Corinthians 3:2)

This is your answer to his statement?

 

[Lacy Evans]

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [to bear it], neither yet now are ye able. (1 Corinthians 3:2)

So what you are saying is that God is wicked and evil for condeming those who never believe because of milk and meat? I don't get it.

Lacy

 

[npetreley]

Wow! Look at all those ME posters plugging away, and I can't even see what they're saying! SFiC, I'd say you really touched a nerve there. :laugh:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

So who did he threaten to bodily throw into hell in Matt 10:28? Not an unbeliever's. Their body is in the grave or the sea until hell is already destroyed in the LOF.

No evidence that the Apostles were saved at that point (since Judas was not saved, chances are the others may not have been saved as well). If they were not saved at that point, that would shed some light on the fact that He was telling them they could end up in hell.

 

[Accountable]

No evidence that the Apostles were saved at that point (since Judas was not saved, chances are the others may not have been saved as well). If they were not saved at that point, that would shed some light on the fact that He was telling them they could end up in hell.

I'm interested to see how many anti ME's will stand with you in this fable. I know many will try to twist what kind of salvation nthey had but...... let's see where this one goes.

 

[Lacy Evans]

No evidence that the Apostles were saved at that point (since Judas was not saved, chances are the others may not have been saved as well). If they were not saved at that point, that would shed some light on the fact that He was telling them they could end up in hell.

Ok then please explain how and when an unbeliever can be cast BODILY into Hell. I am all ears brother.

Lacy

 

[standingfirminChrist]

So what you are saying is that God is wicked and evil for condeming those who never believe because of milk and meat? I don't get it.

Lacy

My God is not evil and wicked. My God is a just God. He will cast unbelievers in hell. He will cast pretenders (those who have a form of godliness but deny the power) into hell.

Nothing evil about it. They made their bed, they will have to sleep in it.

I wi9ll be presented blameless before the Father... regardless of your false teachings.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Ok then please explain how and when an unbeliever can be cast BODILY into Hell. I am all ears brother.

Lacy

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. (Matthew 22:29)

 

[DHK]

Brother do you realize that you are talking about a God that will cast the sweet little grandmother who never believed into a molten burning Lake of Fire to be tormented for absolute eternity? Your argument is the exact same argument as the unbeliever who argues that if God were "really' a God of Love, then He could never do such an "evil" thing.

I know exactly what I am talking about. I was raised a Catholic and wasn't saved until I was 20. After I was saved my perception of who God was changed drastically. Now on this board I read of Baptists who are trying to preach to me and others the same God of the RCC, and believe me there is a difference. The RCC is a religion of works and a religion of fear--where God is to be feared rather than to be loved. It is a message of fear rather than of love. I came out of that, and now I am hearing it all over again.
"If you don't do good you will be cast into a Baptist Purgatory and their suffer torment at the hands of a cruel God; therefore fear and lest the hand of God strike you dead and you stand before him ready to be cast into a place of His judgement. Beware, Beware, God is a fearful Judge. He is every ready to judge the disobedient. Do Good and Fear! Fear the consequences of the Baptist Purgatory to come!"

Sure. I listened to things like that before I was saved. Maybe it wasn't so much hell fire preaching, but rather the teaching was there. And I am ashamed to say that there are Baptists on this board who are teaching that same Catholic theology, and presenting a loving merciful God, as a god that resembles more like Allah than Jesus.

Who says we get a "glorified" body if Christ is not glorified by our works done in Him? A ressurrected body yes, but glory? For a grossly disobedient Christian?

The Bible says. Common sense says. Biblical theology says. Everyone but you, apparently.
The JSOC is a heavenly scene. To get to that heaven common sense tells us that the rapture must take place, and we receive our glorified bodies. You cannot stand in heaven before Jesus Christ, to whom you will give account of yourself if you do not have a glorified body. Make sense? 1Cor.3:11-15 is a heavenly scene. There is no doubt about that. It is also the one passage in the Bible that describes in detail the JSOC. There is no doubt about that. To be present you must have a glorified body; there is no doubt about that.
Thus it doesn't matter if you are a "grossly goody-goody Christian," or a "grossly disobedient" Christian--ALL believers will stand before the JSOC. This is one area where your doctrine is denying the sufficiency of the blood of Christ; denying the atonement--and thus heresy.

Even christ himself had to suffer and to die before he received a glorified human body

More heresy. Christ said: "I lay my life down; I take it up again." He did not have to do anything! to receive a glorified body. He went willingly to the cross. He chose to suffer. He chose to die. He chose to come to this earth as a man. He didn't have to.

 

[Lacy Evans]

My God is not evil and wicked. My God is a just God. He will cast unbelievers in hell. He will cast pretenders (those who have a form of godliness but deny the power) into hell.

Nothing evil about it. They made their bed, they will have to sleep in it.

I wi9ll be presented blameless before the Father... regardless of your false teachings.

BODILY Brother. Nobody who has ever cast into hell was cast bodily into Hell (Well there were a few in the OT but their natural bodies were instantly incinerated) Their bodies are all in the grave, burned to ash or in the sea. Answer the BODILY question. Whose natural body could last one second there, but a resurrected body?

 

[Lacy Evans]

More heresy. Christ said: "I lay my life down; I take it up again." He did not have to do anything! to receive a glorified body. He went willingly to the cross. He chose to suffer. He chose to die. He chose to come to this earth as a man. He didn't have to.

heresy schmeresy

Are you saying Christ would have been glorified, had He chosen to skip the cross, if He had chosen to say "Not thy will but MY will" instead of humbly submitting to the suffering on the cross?

He would have been glorified for that?

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;