Ok so I'm Reformed in my beliefs now.

[J.D.]

Tom Butler said "4. It's an ego trip. I doubt if I'm the only one who likes to see my thoughts in print for the whole world to read. And, our egos get a boost when someone responds to a posted opinion. It means somebody thinks its worth paying attention to, whether it's supported or opposed. Response lend weight to what we write. See why it can be an ego trip?"

I have to admit that I got an ego rush when I first started posting on blogs and forums.

I'm over that now.

So why do I keep doing it?

I think I'm masochistic.

 

[Brother Bob]

I think there is something in the Bible that lays out what God does with children.
"Suffer not little children to come unto me for such "is" the Kingdom of Heaven.

When was Apostle Paul "alive" without the Law?

"at one time Paul was a child also until Law appeared."

 

[timothy27]

Law did not suddenly appear it has always been there. Children are just as accountable for their actions as adults. Paul says in Romans that God makes Hiimself known in all ways, in all things. Do you mean to imply Bob that God is unknown to children until a certain age? That seems to be a pretty weak God to me. So if a 5 year old bludgeon his mother and sister to death (as just recently happened) he is not to be held accountable before God? Also the 5 year old is to be considered innocent in his sinfulness? Seems to me he has a sinful nature.


Oh hoe I love the way people quote passages like Brother Bob above. Brother Bob what happened to the other 6 chapters that precede chapter 7? The ones explaining the nature of sin in man. How all are sinful (Romans 3:9-18). Chapter 7 is not saying that Paul was at one time innocent of his sins. It is saying in the verses Brother Bob supplies Romans 7:8-11 that there is no way of coming to the knowledge of sin which is needed for repentance, and peace and pardon, except by trying our hearts and lives to the law. In this case Paul would not have known his sinfulness of his thoughts, motives desires etc. except by the law. The perfect standard of the law showed him how bad his heart and life were, shwing him that his sins were more numerous than he thought. The law is holy and the commandment is holy, good and just, not favourable to sin. Though the laws nature is to heal and nourish it can cause death through man's depravity.

Chapter 7 is not saying that Paul must have been at on time unaccountable for his actions, it is saying that the law helped him realize the ruinous consequences of his sin. Paul was sinning before the law he just did not think he was. Please, please, please take the entire chapter of the entire boook into account when we are trying to prove a point.

We are always accountable for our actions, from the time of birth to the time of death.

 

[Brother Bob]

I don't believe that at all. Paul was alive without the Law. Even the law of the land don't apply laws to children, how much more is God greater than them?

You say Paul at one time was not innoncent but He was "alive" wasn't he but when the law came he was "dead" wasn't he, in sin.

How you can say a little child is accountable I will never know and Christ didn't know either for He just picked one up and said "such is the Kingdom of Heaven", not going to be but already is.

Where there is no law, there is no sin for sin is transgression of the law. Amen, you double talk, first you say little children sin then you say they don't know it until later in their life because the knowledge of sin was not there. Hogwash.

So, if Paul had of died while a child he would of went to hell because of sin but he never would of known why? Jeepers

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
I don't believe that at all. Paul was alive without the Law. Even the law of the land don't apply laws to children, how much more is God greater than them?

If the "law of the land" doesn't apply to children, then why do children die? Isn't that the law of sin and death mentioned in Romans 8?

 

[timothy27]

What is the context of the verse such is the kingdom of heaven? It is not the character or nature of the child Christ is talking about but but their simple faith. Christ is rebuking the disciples for trying to hinder those who come to him so simply. He is not saying they are innocent of any wrong doing. We can only beg the blessing for the children Christ commands it. Those who have been given to Christ He will not turn away.

Do you just read the bible and make it say what you want it to.?

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
You say Paul at one time was not innoncent but He was "alive" wasn't he but when the law came he was "dead" wasn't he, in sin.

Even though Paul is using first person, I don't think he's talking about his own life experience in most places. Romans is a long lesson about sin and salvation and the condition of man, and Paul often uses first person to give weight to his point.

For example, all of Chapter 7 reads like Paul went through a reasoning process about his sinful state, and that brought him to a place where he cried out for someone to rescue him from his body of death. But that isn't how Paul got saved at all. He was walking along thinking he was perfectly okay, got whomped and was given a special revelation.

 

[timothy27]

Just because you do not know you are sinning does not mean it is not sin. Unbelievers believe they are not sinning are they not to be held accountable. Children are sinners from birth. Your the one who double talks.

 

[timothy27]

I love the I do not like it so I will not believe it approach to theology. Can we please have all the Buger King "Have it your way" theologians raise their hands in praise to their Mr. Potato Head Lord... I like this nose, those ears, that pair of eyes... We are sinners chidren included, we are not given a line of credit for our sins until we reach a certain age, and have our debt paid. All our transgressions are counted against us before we become believers. If we never believe all our sins are counted not just the ones starting at a certain age.

 

[Brother Bob]

tim;
Were you born with such a disposition or did it takes years to develope?

 

[Brother Bob]

nept;
Chosen vessel?

All I know about Apostle Paul is he said "I" died. I don't try to add to it at all or take away.

 

[Brother Bob]

tim;
Knowledge of sin:


Job, chapter 32
"7": I said, Days should speak, and multitude of years should teach wisdom.

"8": But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

"9": Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgment.

"10": Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion.

"11": Behold, I waited for your words; I gave ear to your reasons, whilst ye searched out what to say.

"12": Yea, I attended unto you, and, behold, there was none of you that convinced Job, or that answered his words:

"13": Lest ye should say, We have found out wisdom: God thrusteth him down, not man.

"14": Now he hath not directed his words against me: neither will I answer him with your speeches.


Titus, chapter 2
"11": For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

"12": Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

"13": Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

"14": Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
nept;
Chosen vessel?

All I know about Apostle Paul is he said "I" died. I don't try to add to it at all or take away.

And you don't try to put it into the context of the whole epistle.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
"14": Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

4041 periousios {per-ee-oo'-see-os}
from the present participle feminine of a compound of 4012 and
1510; TDNT - 6:57,828; adj
AV - peculiar 1; 1
1) that which is one's own, belonging to one's possessions
(strong's number 4041)

Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[Brother Bob]

nept;
Take it in context. It is saying if you do those things you become a peculiar people.

In or out of context, Apostle was saying at one time he was alive and the commandments came and taught him he was a sinner and he died in trespasses of sin. No need to twist it turn it, toss it or go to the Greek dictionary, just receive it.

 

[timothy27]

How does you last post in any way relate to my posts?


My last post is in response to the unbelievable way people use their beliefs to justify what they want to believe. "I do not want to believe that God has a right to do that so I will just ignore the Bible and make my own translation." God is not vengeful yet there are numerous places in the Old testament that says he is. God would not kill innocent children yet He struck down the child bore by Davids adultery.

"God does not hate" yet he chose Jacob over Esau. People have to realize God is not who you want Him to be, you are what He wants you to be. Until people get over their prideful beliefs they will never embrace he Gospel. The Truth is just to threatening to the control they think they have over their lives.

 

[timothy27]

The commandments were there before Paul was born!! They have been there to show Him his sinfulness his entire life!!

Brother Bob by your logic you were not a sinner until you were told about Christ. Everything you did before you learned about Christ was "Not sin" because noone "told" you. Yet Paul says in Romans if you were to take the entire book and not just the pieces you like, that no one has an excuse to say that they did not know God for He makes himself known in ALL things to ALL men!!

Your logic is faulty and just plain falls apart.

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
tim;
Knowledge of sin:


Job, chapter 32
"7": I said, Days should speak, and multitude of years should teach wisdom.

"8": But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

"9": Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgment.

"10": Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion.

"11": Behold, I waited for your words; I gave ear to your reasons, whilst ye searched out what to say.

"12": Yea, I attended unto you, and, behold, there was none of you that convinced Job, or that answered his words:

"13": Lest ye should say, We have found out wisdom: God thrusteth him down, not man.

"14": Now he hath not directed his words against me: neither will I answer him with your speeches.


Titus, chapter 2
"11": For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

"12": Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

"13": Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

"14": Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

So, now let's talk about redefining words. Are you, by these verses, saying that women haven't been given understanding and that the grace of God did not appear to women as well? Because the word used is "men" and if "all" must mean "all" and not something else, then "men" must mean "men" and not something else.

 

[Brother Bob]

I never said God didn't hate. He hates the deeds of the Nicholadians. He hated Essau. You are saying things I did not say. Also you are saying I don't have the Scriptures right but have you ever entertained the thought that it might be you? Who hath known the mind of God, or who hath been His councelor? I don't claim to know it all and I know you don't either and that is not a slam, it is the truth. We both need to tone it down a little. We are Christians and we should behave as such, don't you agree?

 

[Brother Bob]

The commandments were there before Paul was born!! They have been there to show Him his sinfulness his entire life!!

(They never entered His life until a point in time)

Brother Bob by your logic you were not a sinner until you were told about Christ. Everything you did before you learned about Christ was "Not sin" because noone "told" you. Yet Paul says in Romans if you were to take the entire book and not just the pieces you like, that no one has an excuse to say that they did not know God for He makes himself known in ALL things to ALL men

(let me tell you how it is. I did things just as bad as adults but it was not imputed until I came to a understanding age and the Grace of God appeared to me teaching that denying ungodliness "had to tell me what ungodliness was". When this happenen then I became accountable for every sin I had ever committed.)

So, now let's talk about redefining words. Are you, by these verses, saying that women haven't been given understanding and that the grace of God did not appear to women as well? Because the word used is "men" and if "all" must mean "all" and not something else, then "men" must mean "men" and not something else.

Surely you not going to say that when "men" was used throughout the Bible to define both men and women and in Heaven it is neither male or female. Now you will have to do better than that tim;