Ok so I'm Reformed in my beliefs now.

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
nept;
Take it in context. It is saying if you do those things you become a peculiar people.

It says no such thing. It says that "He will purify for Himself His own special people" (NKJV). It doesn't say "those people who are zealous He will purify and make them His own".

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
In or out of context, Apostle was saying at one time he was alive and the commandments came and taught him he was a sinner and he died in trespasses of sin. No need to twist it turn it, toss it or go to the Greek dictionary, just receive it.

God forbid we should see a statement in the context of the whole book. Otherwise we might hear, understand, turn, and be healed.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Surely you not going to say that when "men" was used throughout the Bible to define both men and women and in Heaven it is neither male or female. Now you will have to do better than that tim;

No need to twist it, turn it, or run for your Greek dictionary. It says "all men" and not "men and women". Just receive it.

 

[Brother Bob]

Amen nept;

As far as you post before this one I don't accept it at all. You putting your own spin on it. Are you a Republican?

 

[timothy27]

Brother Bob tell me where in the Bible that there is an "age of accountability". There is not one.

 

[Brother Bob]

tim;
Paul must of went through one because the law was there before he was even born but he had to come to a time in his life before it entered him. Lord said I will put my laws in their hearts and write them in their minds. You ever read in the Bible where the Scripture was directed to a child? Did you ever read where they ever spoke of children being in sin.

 

[timothy27]

Sorry Brother Bob that does not count. Paul does not even come close to even discussing an age of accountability. Quit trying to make it relevant to what you want it to say. Give me scripture that defines an age when one becomes accountable for their sins. Let me save you time there is not one. The closest would be in the old testament. Your argument just does not hold up Bob.

 

[timothy27]

Yes old testament "and the sins of the father shall be counted unto four generations".

New Testament..Romans- through one man ALL sinned(including children)

 

[Brother Bob]

tim;
Please tell me where the Apostles or anyone went to preach to the children?

 

[timothy27]

You telling me that you believe there were no children at any of the churches that were there at the time? You honestly believe that the children did not hear the Gospel? Who was Jesus talking to in Matthew chapter 19? Obviously there were children present. You do not strike me as beig that naive.

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
tim;
Please tell me where the Apostles or anyone went to preach to the children?

Excellent point

 

[Brother Bob]

Didn't ask you who was present, asked where anyone preached to children.

 

[JackRUS]

I have often wondered if Calvinists believe that the souls of aborted children are in hell because or their sin. Their original sin.

Or did Jesus die for them too?

In 2 Sam. 12:2 David said that his dead child would not return to him, but that he would return to the child. Was he saying that they would be together some day in heaven?

 

[Jarthur001]

Originally posted by JackRUS:
I have often wondered if Calvinists believe that the souls of aborted children are in hell because or their sin. Their original sin.

Or did Jesus die for them too?

In 2 Sam. 12:2 David said that his dead child would not return to him, but that he would return to the child. Was he saying that they would be together some day in heaven?

Jack,

You should be able to answer this yourself. So..let me ask you. Did the blood of Christ cover the sins of Davids Baby before the Baby could choose salvation?

Does the Blood of Christ cover all babys before they know of God? Now we both know that we are born sinners, or do we need to debate this? My hope is that we do not.

So, we are born sinners, and even in our mothers womb we are sinners..(in sin did my mother conceive me)..so tell me...being that you brought it up...are "aborted children are in hell because or their sin. Their original sin?"


1...they are all saved..
2...some are saved..
3....none are saved.


Come now...do not be shy. Tell us.


In Christ...James

 

[Rhetorician]

Throw this into the mix:

The Scripture says "ye must be born again!" period! If an infant dies in infancy or is aborted; is that infant saved? Is (s)he saved without being "born again?" Does God say one thing in one place and they say another thing in another place?

Or, does God have a "special dispensation" or "sidebar" or "sweetheart deal" made with each infant or aborted baby?

Something to ponder!! It is hard to deal in totally hard and fast Biblical categories for everything in our systems of theology; whether they be Calvinist, Arminian, Luther, Methodist, RCC, Baptist or whatever.

Just think about it!

sdg!

rd

 

[Jarthur001]

Originally posted by Rhetorician:
Throw this into the mix:

The Scripture says "ye must be born again!" period! If an infant dies in infancy or is aborted; is that infant saved? Is (s)he saved without being "born again?" Does God say one thing in one place and they say another thing in another place?

Or, does God have a "special dispensation" or "sidebar" or "sweetheart deal" made with each infant or aborted baby?

Something to ponder!! It is hard to deal in totally hard and fast Biblical categories for everything in our systems of theology; whether they be Calvinist, Arminian, Luther, Methodist, RCC, Baptist or whatever.

Just think about it!

sdg!

rd

Hi Rhetorician,


I understand your point but I will have to disagree with your full post. Mainly this.... Calvinist can answer this one..where as you will soon see, other systems will fall. I will address this in short later. Lets see what others have to say 1st.


In Christ...James

 

[JackRUS]

Originally posted by Jarthur001:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JackRUS:
I have often wondered if Calvinists believe that the souls of aborted children are in hell because or their sin. Their original sin.

Or did Jesus die for them too?

In 2 Sam. 12:2 David said that his dead child would not return to him, but that he would return to the child. Was he saying that they would be together some day in heaven?

Jack,

You should be able to answer this yourself. So..let me ask you. Did the blood of Christ cover the sins of Davids Baby before the Baby could choose salvation?

Does the Blood of Christ cover all babys before they know of God? Now we both know that we are born sinners, or do we need to debate this? My hope is that we do not.

So, we are born sinners, and even in our mothers womb we are sinners..(in sin did my mother conceive me)..so tell me...being that you brought it up...are "aborted children are in hell because or their sin. Their original sin?"


1...they are all saved..
2...some are saved..
3....none are saved.


Come now...do not be shy. Tell us.


In Christ...James </font>[/QUOTE]Oh no you don't. I asked first!

Besides, I assume that you have a stance on this. So fess up.

 

[Jarthur001]

Originally posted by JackRUS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jarthur001:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JackRUS:
I have often wondered if Calvinists believe that the souls of aborted children are in hell because or their sin. Their original sin.

Or did Jesus die for them too?

In 2 Sam. 12:2 David said that his dead child would not return to him, but that he would return to the child. Was he saying that they would be together some day in heaven?

Jack,

You should be able to answer this yourself. So..let me ask you. Did the blood of Christ cover the sins of Davids Baby before the Baby could choose salvation?

Does the Blood of Christ cover all babys before they know of God? Now we both know that we are born sinners, or do we need to debate this? My hope is that we do not.

So, we are born sinners, and even in our mothers womb we are sinners..(in sin did my mother conceive me)..so tell me...being that you brought it up...are "aborted children are in hell because or their sin. Their original sin?"


1...they are all saved..
2...some are saved..
3....none are saved.


Come now...do not be shy. Tell us.


In Christ...James </font>[/QUOTE]Oh no you don't. I asked first!

Besides, I assume that you have a stance on this. So fess up. </font>[/QUOTE]Jack,

I do not blaim you for dodging this, for freewillers have no answer that lines-up with the Bible. You seem very smart and I'm sure you have at this point ran though all options. You then know a freewiller will need to go down one of 3 paths. One is to say all of mankind is saved. Another is to say we can be "born again" many times. The last is...it is God that saves and not mans will.

It is very easy Jack for Calvinism. I believe as in all cases Salvation is in Gods hands. He does this with election. Do you agree?

In Christ...James

 

[MRCoon]

Ok so if I understand this right then aborted babies are in heaven because they are predestined for it? Then why are we so offended by abortion? What is so wrong with abortion if it is sending souls to heaven? Or are these souls going to hell? Then we should see many more protesting this practice. Or does it matter since Abortion is of the Will of God and we need to convince Christians to stop protesting it??

 

[timothy27]

Didn't ask you who was present, asked where anyone preached to children.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brother Bob, your logic and reasoning are very weak. You are defeated by your own reasoning. You do not have to preach directly to the children. If they are present at church they are being taught. Your reasoning is the same as if you said well I do not have to listen to what the pastor said today because he was not preaching directly to me, so none of what he says applies and I cannot be held accountable for what he taught because he did not say directly to me. If I am present it applies. Children were present at the first church, and hence knew the law.

 

[4His_glory]

Originally posted by MRCoon:
Ok so if I understand this right then aborted babies are in heaven because they are predestined for it? Then why are we so offended by abortion? What is so wrong with abortion if it is sending souls to heaven? Or are these souls going to hell? Then we should see many more protesting this practice. Or does it matter since Abortion is of the Will of God and we need to convince Christians to stop protesting it??

Why are we offended at murder? Why are we offended at stealing? Why are we offended at any sinful practice? Because they are sin!

God is offended at murder, yet at the same time He ordained that Christ be murdered. Does that mean that God all of sudden changed His mind and is no longer offended by murder? Certainly not!

Everything comes to pass ultimatly for the glory of God.