Old Regular Baptist

[Squire Robertsson]

The Squire's Insurance Policy

As I am not one of this forum's moderators, Brethren, I can't directly exercise any discipline here. However, better I say something and get y'all to come up for air, than some one who can make something stick gets involved. Kinda like with my nephews :saint: , better they listen to their Uncle Keith than they keep going and their parents get involved.

 

[Brother Bob]

Sorry, you are right for sure.

 

[old regular]

Sovereign Grace Association

The Sovereign Grace Association of Old Regular Baptist Churches of Jesus Christ will be holding their nineth annual session with the New Mt. Zion Church in Attica ,Ohio starting on friday the 14th of July at 1pm the15th @10am and the 16th @ 10am everyone is invited!!! The church is located in the northeast block from intersection 224 and 4 turn by the alley below the gas station for parking right off rt 4 north, for fruther information call Elder Bobby Patton @419)933-4514 or Bro.Jermy Slone (419)964-0901.Note Old School Baptist Ministers please bring a minute from your association,or copy of your articles of faith we try to let all our Old School Brethern exercise their gifts, any other preaching brethern of like faith and doctrine are also welcomed and we often allow them to hold their own service seperate ,not as to gender strife and confusion. Please Come !!!

 

[Bro. James Reed]

old regular,

How would you consider the Sovereing Grace ORB view similar to/different than the Primitive view?

FYI, we refer to ourselves as Old School Baptists/Old Baptists as well.

Bro. James

 

[bubba jimmy]

Bubba; There are a few Old Regular Baptist who have baptisteries but very few and mostly located in Mich, OH. In Kentucky and area there are some who have a baptistery outside with a cover over it that can be slid back. One Church was cut from New Salem over using a baptistery and went to Indian Bottom who has web site but before Indian Bottom would take them they had to get rid of the baptistery. You will eventually see them on the outside more and more because of the filth in the creeks.

Thank you Brother Bob. I was just looking back over this thread and saw your comment. The baptistry at Little Ida church in Michigan is indoors, and according to the moderator there, it was put in because none of the suitable rivers have public access or the ones that do were in parks and other people had complained about them baptising there. It is a real shame that the local government authorities there are more restrictive than even the Romans and Herod were on John when he was baptizing in the Jordan! By the way, Little Ida is in the New Salem Association and the moderator said they approved the baptistry, so it must be a case-by-case thing.

By the way, how long ago was Elder Grover Adkins the moderator of that association? That name sure rings a bell in the recesses of my mind from somewhere. Anyway, I was listening to my ORB CD in the car on the way to work this morning which probably made me look in again on this thread. Thank you for the update, even if I'm a little late in seeing it.

Jim

 

[Brother Bob]

Hi bubby jimmy;
Little Ida is in the Northern New Salem Association and moderated by Brother Ralph Caudell. You are right about the authorities stopping them baptizing in Lake Erie and the other Lakes and waters around so they were given permission for the baptisery in the church. I am looking at a 2002 minute and unless brother Ralph resigned He is still their moderator. Brother Buddy Carty is now Moderator of the Northern New Salem Association for brother Ralph resigned from that because of his age. I talked to him not long ago on the phone.

Brother Grover Adkins has been dead now for I guess 8 to 10 years. Brother Ellis Holbrook is their moderator of New Salem and Brother Monroe Jones was Assistant but he died about a month ago so they will be picking another one in the last weekend in September. I was with Brother Hiriam Adkins, his brother yesterday and we were trying to find his grandpa's grave here on Narrows Branch, Ky.

Good to talk to you I used to live in Mich for many years and some of my family were members at Little Ida. I also preached there when L E Smith was their moderator years ago.

BBob

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Bro. Bob,

Why all the controversy over an indoor baptistry?

Our former building was not built with one, but for cost reasons rather than scriptural reasons. The building in which we currently meet has a baptistry, as do 2 of the other 3 PB churches in Houston. In fact, almost all of the PB churches I can think of have an indoor baptistry.

Bro. James

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother James:
I will just have to give you what I think is the reason. The Old Baptist of this area including Old Regular, Primitive, United Baptist and others believed strongly that you had to be baptized as Jesus was in the creek, river etc. A baptistry has always been a no no in all these denominations or at least in this area. We are slowly changing but we are not there yet. Change is something that must happen slowly or you lose the old members and if you don't change you don't gain the younger ones. So, I guess we all do the best we know how. If the creeks had not of got so filthy I guess we never would of changed. I have an inground pool and have used it for years but I am an old brother and don't get jumped on to often but have always worried a little about it. You talking about the Primitive but I remember when they would not of thought of having a baptistry, the ones in this area. I suspect if we ran a history on it we would find that it was a no no with all of them years ago, as the pant wearing and cutting of hair for the sisters. Things have changed over the years and still changing.

 

[old regular]

Sovereign Grace View

Brother James, I would have to know on which group of Primitive Baptist,you would be refering to.SGA would not be in harmony with the absolute faction or at least their terminology,SGA does currently correspond with PBs and has in the past.We are more for the unity of Old Baptist than for the seperation of them and are closer to the original views of ORB as held originally by the Union and New Salem, they used to seat even non corresponding Old School Baptist,in their former years before the man made walls came up, ORB

 

[Brother Bob]

James;
I told you I use my inground pool for baptism but I have only used it for sickness cases so far. One was going in for open heart surgery and cases like that. I still use the creeks and rivers to baptize. I personally feel much better using the creeks and rivers. I have some beautiful pictures of baptisms that way.
BBob,

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Bro. Bob,

I can certainly see the beauty of being baptized in a creek/river, but I would be hard-pressed to declare against someone who was baptizing or being baptized in another manner. As long as it's done with water, with full immersion, and by an ordained minister under the direction of a church, that is what counts, to me anyway. Maybe it's a regional thing. I was baptized in a baptistry. My mother was baptized in a swimming pool, and my grandmother was baptized in a tank...no, not the army kind.:smilewinkgrin:

If I had to venture a guess, I would say that the churches in the old days used creeks, rivers, tanks, etc, not because they thought baptistries were unscriptural, but because creeks were free and accessible. When the time came many years later, and Bro. so-and-so wanted to add a baptistry, another brother said they couldn't because grandaddy didn't have one in the church, so it must be wrong. It's kind of sad and a little funny to me how, many times, traditions in a church will become doctrine after a couple generations.

I also know a thing or two about stubborn old brethren.

Many years ago, probably 50 or more, some of the members wanted to add padding to the hard, wooden pews. Well, that nearly split the church in two. Many thought it would be adding to the church. So, the compromised. They padded the lower half only. :laugh: Granddaddy wasn't always right.:thumbsup:

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Brother James, I would have to know on which group of Primitive Baptist,you would be refering to.SGA would not be in harmony with the absolute faction or at least their terminology,SGA does currently correspond with PBs and has in the past.We are more for the unity of Old Baptist than for the seperation of them and are closer to the original views of ORB as held originally by the Union and New Salem, they used to seat even non corresponding Old School Baptist,in their former years before the man made walls came up, ORB

old regular,

I am of the right faction of PBs.:smilewinkgrin:

That would be the normal, old, everyday Primitive Baptist variety. We do not fellowship Absoluters or Progressives.

May I ask, with which PBs do you correspond?

Bro. James

 

[bubba jimmy]

Little Ida is in the Northern New Salem Association and moderated by Brother Ralph Caudell.

Ah, I don't remember there being a "Northern" version of New Salem years ago. Do you know when it came into being? Or was it always that way?

I used to live in Mich for many years and some of my family were members at Little Ida. I also preached there when L E Smith was their moderator years ago.

I've recently moved from Michigan to Florida. I just realized it still said Michigan in my profile. Anyway, my grandmother first belonged to the Dorton Creek ORB church in the Union Association, but joined the Little Ida church when my family moved to Michigan. Brother Caudill was one of the brothers who preached my mothers funeral over 20 years ago there at Little Ida. She had left the ORB to join another baptist church nearer to where she lived, but her request was to have her funeral at the ORB church so that's what we did.

There are a few things I don't exactly agree with the ORBs on, but that is not of any consequence really. They will always and forever have a special place in my heart and I sure hope to join in the ORB singing one day when we are all one with the Lord in heaven. The singing of the Old Regular Baptists will be a part of me til I draw my last breath.

It's funny, here in Florida a lot of the churches baptize in the ocean. Well, at least it seems funny to me. There are not a lot of clean waterways to use here, and I guess some are put off by the alligators! I don't suppose it matters if the water is salty or fresh. The Lord made a whole lot more of the salty kind.

 

[Brother Bob]

bubba Jimmy;
Ever since there has been a little Ida there has been a Northern New Salem Association. My uncle helped set up the churches. I am not one of the real hard ones on where to baptize. I would rather if they are going to have a baptisery that it be on the outside of the church.

James;
I can understand how you might think that it got started that way but it still in this area for the Old Regular Baptist is just not practiced. Now I have even baptized in a bath tub, pool and of course the river and creek. Right now if someone put a baptisery inside of their church they would be asked to take it out and if they refused the Association would cut them off. It happend about 6 years ago in the New Salem Association. I think it has more to do with the Old Regular not wanting to be like other more liberal churches. I have no doubt in my mind if time lasts that it will probably change. First it will be built outside then someone will build a new church with one inside but it will be farther down the rode. I try to look ahead and see what will be tolerable later and not be too hard on it now but that is just me.

 

[bubba jimmy]

I should probably clarify, the baptistry at Little Ida is in a hall next to the church, not in the church where worship services are held. They are attached, but you go through a door way to a hall and that's where the baptistry is.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bro. James;
Covering the seats brings back memories to me also for we had almost identical same problem. We also went through it again when we put carpet on the floor. What about when we put inside toilet facilities. Since I have moderated this church we have bricked, cathedral ceiling, air conditoning, paved parking, etc. man would I be in trouble. lol

 

[old regular]

SGA and PB

Brother James, We currrently correspond with the Northwestern Association of Primitive Baptist, we formerly had correspondence with the Sandlick Regular Primitive Baptist whose mother was the New Salem,Indian Bottom started as a union meeting, and eventually became an association, its original churches were members of the Sandlick until a sentiment arose preaching absolute predestination of all things, making God the direct author (not by permissive decree) but direct aurthor of every evil and good event that comes to pass,not all of the Sandlick held this view,and that view died out ,but by that time, there had been to much confusion between those churches to re unite,we were the first Regular Baptist to correspond with them in many years.They now have correspondence with the Burning Springs who did not wan't coresspondence with us or Bethel directly or indirectly, I am told that they are fond of their secret orders ,which we do not allow with in our association(to be held as members).How close Bro. James would your church be in practice and doctrine to the original Baptist,I am told Primitive means first or original, and some of the primitives I have visted would be the true historical Baptist of old, others I have visted, practice and sing and dress like the modern church, yet without Sunday School,or musical insturments,but would be no closer to the original than the missionaries in practice. We also have used brothers from independent PBCs and different associations that we don't correspond with.We currently baptise members in an elementary body of water.I once objected strongly to Little Ida baptising members that way, this was when the issue came to the association floor , I was asked by Elder David Slone to withdraw my objection ,to keep from splitting the NNS association, (Little Ida had asked to install the one they have now.)I withdrew my objection for peace sake only at the time, but I have since seen cases where It would have been better to at least have some place clean to perform baptisms besides a cesspool.The Stone Cole Church had an outdoor one at one time according to my good friend now departed Bro. Banner Mannns, it was many years ago. Bro.Slone

 

[old regular]

Nns

My home Church is Mt. Zion it was organized as Little Maudie in 1954 (,I believe,)( it was originally in the New Salem and went in the arm to organize the Northern New Salem,Maybe Little Ida was also in the New Salem?? I would have to look it up.As to the question of all Old Regular Baptist getting back together , unlikely, but not immpossible. It could be done by going back to their original doctrinal guidelines,by letting each association take care and work on their own problems,maybe withholding of communion of Churches not keeping good order,but not totally isolating them, by studying their Bibles, praying fasting,forgiving each other,dropping former charges against one anthor, then they could also move the same way toward the old United and Primitive, our forefathers did it and they all didn,t agree on every point of doctrine either. Bro .Slone

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

I was on the Wikipedia on old regular baptist and they had Little Dove Association metioned per 1989 with 35 members I believe. Does any one know anything about them where they are at. or how their Doctrine and practice is. Does any one know the history on them. I do not believe they armed from New Salem. May be they armed off Burning Springs as New Salem and Mountain association of ORB did. ?

 

[rlvaughn]

Brother Jeremy, I don't remember their history offhand, but believe I have one of their minutes. I'll try to remember to look this afternoon.