-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Omnibenevolent God Creating Hell?
- Thread starter Benjamin
- Start date
As I said it was a side issue. I suppose in one way we are not as originally designed. Adam was perfect yet we suffer the consquences of his actions. Is there benevolence in being weighted down by another's sins?
Yes, there is. Imagine if we did not experience the consequences or far-reaching damage of sin -- we would never take it very seriously, would we?
Yes, there is. Imagine if we did not experience the consequences or far-reaching damage of sin -- we would never take it very seriously, would we?
You must not be a parent. I am a parent. One of the most difficult and loving things a parent can do is to let your own children make mistakes on their own. So it is with our Heavenly Father.
Hell exists. That is a fact. Some will go there, some won't. Scripture is abundantly clear that God loves all, and to anyone with children, it is no contradiction to it takes more love to let a child go.
I already did for both words john and then you asked for scripture, please go back and read my posts.
If you have a problem with the words I use here is the Merriam Webster Online Dictionary URL:
http://www.m-w.com
Well, I don't know about that john, you should give yourself more credit than that,
you have a computer, you know how to use it and how to get around the internet. That's an accomplishment even for a bright person.
HankD
Salamander
New Member
No, but then God isn't all-loving, you forget His balance of love is also His wrath against sin.
One of the most damnedable heresies liberals ever introduced to an unsuspecting lost world is that God is only love.
StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
No, but then God isn't all-loving, you forget His balance of love is also His wrath against sin.
One of the most damnedable heresies liberals ever introduced to an unsuspecting lost world is that God is only love. </font>[/QUOTE]Do you have some support for claiming that it was liberals who did this?
No, but then God isn't all-loving, you forget His balance of love is also His wrath against sin.
</font>[/QUOTE]Did I, thought I mentioned His wrath in the OP; Wrath against sin is not love for the good?
I suppose we are to preach the “bad news” about God’s hate for those who aren’t “special”
You have to know what the symbols represent to know what is being said.
Concerning the other parts, follow this link.
http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/28/3398.html?
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
I am playing the debator's advocate here (the following does not necessarily reflect my opinion):
Why is Hell the only option? What about annihilation?
Joseph Botwinick
I cannot see annihilation as an option, I wish it were:
Mark 9:43-49 speaks of a fire not being quenched.
Revelation 14:11 speaks of the smoke ascending forever and ever.
In Luke 16:20 with the rich man and Lazarus it indicates the rich man being conscious of his torment.
II Thessalonians 1:9 speaks of everlasting destruction or death from the Lord. Scripturally death is always separation, not cessation of life.
In Revelation 20 speaking of the Lake of Fire it describes is as a place where the inhabitants will be tormented day and night forever.
God created us with eternal souls. His design was that we would live with Him eternally, but sin came into the world and we got into sin.
Does it mean God hates the sinner because He sends them to hell?
Ezekiel 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
God loved us even when we were dead in our trespasses and sins, but sin MUST be judged. It is judged either in the body of Christ or we take it upon ourselves. Sin's wages - eternity in hell.
It is a harsh truth. God is love, but God is also righteous.
Regarding the Lord's reigning now and Satan's being bound (Not to go off topic too much) but the passages that speak of Christ reigning for a thousand years, which I expect to happen, also describe Him ruling with a rod of iron. If that is happening now, what happened? Did He lose His rod of iron?
And if satan is bound already, he is on pretty long chain...
Mark 9:43-49 speaks of a fire not being quenched.
Revelation 14:11 speaks of the smoke ascending forever and ever.
In Luke 16:20 with the rich man and Lazarus it indicates the rich man being conscious of his torment.
II Thessalonians 1:9 speaks of everlasting destruction or death from the Lord. Scripturally death is always separation, not cessation of life.
In Revelation 20 speaking of the Lake of Fire it describes is as a place where the inhabitants will be tormented day and night forever.
God created us with eternal souls. His design was that we would live with Him eternally, but sin came into the world and we got into sin.
Does it mean God hates the sinner because He sends them to hell?
Ezekiel 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
God loved us even when we were dead in our trespasses and sins, but sin MUST be judged. It is judged either in the body of Christ or we take it upon ourselves. Sin's wages - eternity in hell.
It is a harsh truth. God is love, but God is also righteous.
Regarding the Lord's reigning now and Satan's being bound (Not to go off topic too much) but the passages that speak of Christ reigning for a thousand years, which I expect to happen, also describe Him ruling with a rod of iron. If that is happening now, what happened? Did He lose His rod of iron?
And if satan is bound already, he is on pretty long chain...
Only if you believe God is unjust and will not punish a man according to his works. On annihilation all the unbelieving are destroyed without regard for the lives they lived, so that the little old lady who rears her family, is a faithful wife, great mother and a good neighbour but dies in unbelief, suffers the same fate as Adolph Hitler. Where is the justice in that? To me the doctrine of hell does not make God any less benevolent, but the doctrine of annihilation certainly makes Him less just, and from that point of view much more difficult to swallow.Originally posted by mnw:
Hi johnp,
You're right, God is Sovereign and and annihilation would be an easier truth to swallow than hell.
I am playing the debator's advocate here (the following does not necessarily reflect my opinion):
Why is Hell the only option? What about annihilation?
Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]Logically it could certainly be an option, but if we stay within the biblical framework, it is not. Bodies can rot -- and will. But evidently spirits cannot, and remain eternally conscious (which is not the same as eternal life, which Jesus defines much more narrowly in John 17). Therefore there is a choice of destinations, not a choice of consciousness.
Hello HankD.
1 : a reproduction of a person or thing:
1 : the quality or state of being like
Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (18 Jan. 2006).
I know I don't have to say which is which because both say the same thing.
john.
I read them and I wanted clarification about the distinction you were making between likeness and image. If you don't care to believe I need clarification then your message has been lost to me.
I am a subscriber to the good people at Merriam-Webster but thanks for the advice. I know what they say I wanted to understand what you were saying.
1 : a reproduction of a person or thing:
1 : the quality or state of being like
Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (18 Jan. 2006).
I know I don't have to say which is which because both say the same thing.
Any credit I give belongs to the Lord. I am humble.
But honest. I didn't say I was unintelligent I said I was simple. For instance when I read that God hated Esau and read what God done to Edom I get the impression He hates Esau and his brood. When He says He chose Esau to hate before Esau did right or wrong then I know, I don't think, I know that Esau was created for Hell and nothing Esau could have done would have changed his destiny. When someone claims my God is omnibenevolent I wonder where the God of wrath went that has been acknowledge by the Church for the past 6000 years. Simple questions really need simple answers. He didn't go anywhere did He? He is still here isn't He?
john.
I can't think of a single person who has ever ascribed a believe that God is "only" love. That would indeed be a damnable heresy, because, while God is love, and God loves all, God is not "only" love.
However, a more damnable heresy is the liberal idea that God does not love all. Scripture is clear that God loves all. Certainly, God has wrath for some, but that does not preclude the scriptural fact that God loves all.