On Board With Billy Graham

[Darrell C]

The core of the message of Jesus is, "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand." And it was and still is.

The core message of the Gospel of the Kingdom is "Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand."

Doesn't mean we equate that to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Christ did preach the Gospel, so to speak, when He revealed it to His Disciples, but, He was not going out and preaching it to the world. In fact, He did not even send His Disciples to the world until after His death, after they were Baptized with the Holy Ghost:


Matthew 10
King James Version (KJV)

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.


Acts 1:8
King James Version (KJV)

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


The Gospel of the Kingdom was relevant to Israel in that it was to her the promises were relevant:


Romans 9
King James Version (KJV)

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.


It was to them that the promise of the Kingdom they expected to arise was given:


Luke 19:10-11
King James Version (KJV)

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.


The Kingdom they looked for, which was based on the Prophecy of the Hebrew Scriptures, was not a Kingdom in which Messiah could die. That is why Peter rebukes the Lord in opposition to the Gospel, and denies he even knows Him when He is taken. That too was prophesied:


John 16:32
King James Version (KJV)

32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.


Continued...

 

[Baptist Believer]

It denies the intervention of Sovereign God in the lives of natural men.

Only in your mind. No one is saved by their own efforts or intent, but by the drawing of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44, among others). But the way we enter into the kingdom (aka enter into Christ) is by entering into discipleship with him, not making a mere intellectual decision.

Again, you are confusing EFFORT with EARNING.

That doesn't sound like "...do stuff so you can be saved" to me.

For the record, the "do stuff so you can be saved" strawman is of your own creation. I have made no such claim. You are simply misinterpreting what I have said when I quote Jesus.

Sounds like the Gospel delivered by Paul was that Christ died for our sins, and rose again the third day. That's the Good News, not, "Be saved so you can be busy for the Lord.

Strawman.

And again, as ignored in your response, The Gospel of Jesus Christ was a Mystery not revealed since the world began

It was revealed in Jesus Christ, not Paul's preaching/writing.

No, He did not reveal the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Jesus didn't reveal His gospel? Nonsense.

Again, He ministered within the Law, within that Age, and within the revelation afforded men at that time.

Your dispensationalist views are blinding you to the obvious.

By the way, Jesus ministered well outside of the Law too. He forgave sins, which should have only been done in the Temple, with a sacrifice. The baptisms were ceremonial washings that took place outside of the Temple (the Law). He touched the lepers and made clean those who were cursed under the law. He did not participate in all of the rituals that were formed by concern for the Law (hand washings, breaking of the Sabbath, etc.).

Moreover, He brought all kinds of new revelation about God to His audience. He was not bound by the knowledge of the age.

Seriously, you need to spend some time reading the Gospels.

 

[Darrell C]

Paul was a disciple of Jesus and taught His message.

Paul preached the Gospel, Christ crucified and risen.

One understands Paul's teaching by knowing what Jesus said.

It works both ways. Paul gives us commentary that helps us understand the Gospel and Christ's teachings.

And it is Christ Who said:


John 14:26
King James Version (KJV)

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

And it is the Comforter, the Promised Spirit...Who enlightens the natural mind to the Gospel:


John 16:7-9
King James Version (KJV)

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;


And the Mystery of the Gospel is revealed by the Spirit of God:


Ephesians 3
King James Version (KJV)

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:


You can make the mistake many do in regards to Paul's statement here, and say the Mystery is Gentile Inclusion, however, what you must consider is that the Mystery was not revealed to the sons of men (and that means all men) in other Ages. It is now revealed to His holy Apostles and Prophets.

Secondly, we know that both Jew and Gentile are made one in Christ only in this Age.

That clarifies that Christ was not revealing the Mystery of the Gospel during His Ministry.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Only in your mind. No one is saved by their own efforts or intent, but by the drawing of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44, among others). But the way we enter into the kingdom (aka enter into Christ) is by entering into discipleship with him, not making a mere intellectual decision.

Again, you are confusing EFFORT with EARNING.


For the record, the "do stuff so you can be saved" strawman is of your own creation. I have made no such claim. You are simply misinterpreting what I have said when I quote Jesus.


Strawman.


It was revealed in Jesus Christ, not Paul's preaching/writing.


Jesus didn't reveal His gospel? Nonsense.


Your dispensationalist views are blinding you to the obvious.

By the way, Jesus ministered well outside of the Law too. He forgave sins, which should have only been done in the Temple, with a sacrifice. The baptisms were ceremonial washings that took place outside of the Temple (the Law). He touched the lepers and made clean those who were cursed under the law. He did not participate in all of the rituals that were formed by concern for the Law (hand washings, breaking of the Sabbath, etc.).

Moreover, He brought all kinds of new revelation about God to His audience. He was not bound by the knowledge of the age.

Seriously, you need to spend some time reading the Gospels.

Seriously, you need to spend some time dealing with the points.


God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

The core message of the Gospel of the Kingdom is "Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand."

Doesn't mean we equate that to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Christ did preach the Gospel, so to speak, when He revealed it to His Disciples, but, He was not going out and preaching it to the world. In fact, He did not even send His Disciples to the world until after His death, after they were Baptized with the Holy Ghost:


Matthew 10
King James Version (KJV)

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.


Acts 1:8
King James Version (KJV)

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


The Gospel of the Kingdom was relevant to Israel in that it was to her the promises were relevant:


Romans 9
King James Version (KJV)

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.


It was to them that the promise of the Kingdom they expected to arise was given:


Luke 19:10-11
King James Version (KJV)

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.


The Kingdom they looked for, which was based on the Prophecy of the Hebrew Scriptures, was not a Kingdom in which Messiah could die. That is why Peter rebukes the Lord in opposition to the Gospel, and denies he even knows Him when He is taken. That too was prophesied:


John 16:32
King James Version (KJV)

32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.


Continued...

The "Core message" of the Gospel would be found in John 3:16-17!

 

[Baptist Believer]

The core message of the Gospel of the Kingdom is "Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand."

Doesn't mean we equate that to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Sure it does.

Christ did preach the Gospel, so to speak, when He revealed it to His Disciples, but, He was not going out and preaching it to the world.

Sure He did.

In fact, He did not even send His Disciples to the world until after His death, after they were Baptized with the Holy Ghost:

He sent the disciples out on at least two different missionary journeys to the villages of Israel and Judah -- and the Spirit was with them. Just before His ascension, He commissioned them to go into the broader world after the Spirit had indwelt them and they had received power from the Holy Spirit.

The Gospel of the Kingdom was relevant to Israel in that it was to her the promises were relevant:

They should have been the most prepared to understand the kingdom of God, but sometimes the pagan Gentiles understood it better (Luke 7:7-9). Remember, the kingdom of God is "the interactive present rule and authority of God", not merely something that is coming later.

The Kingdom they looked for, which was based on the Prophecy of the Hebrew Scriptures, was not a Kingdom in which Messiah could die.

Yes, obviously. However, if they had looked at the scriptures more carefully, they would have seen that it was part of the prophecies.

That is why Peter rebukes the Lord in opposition to the Gospel, and denies he even knows Him when He is taken

Peter failed here and there, but he did not desert the Jesus or the message that Jesus taught - the gospel.

 

[Darrell C]

Paul was not the one who revealed the gospel of Jesus.

I agree, the Holy Spirit revealed the Gospel to Paul and gave him an administration of it:


1 Corinthians 2:7-10
King James Version (KJV)

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.


Ephesians 3
King James Version (KJV)

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

It had been made plain by Jesus and His earliest disciples.

Not sure what Bible you read, but there is no way anyone can draw that conclusion from Scripture.

And you tell me to spend time in the Gospels.

Perhaps if you address a couple of these points you will see that the reason no man was believing on Christ as the Risen Savior is because the Mystery of the Gospel of Christ was not being revealed during His Ministry.

It was not something Paul and the disciples uniquely revealed to the world, but it was first revealed in its fulness by Jesus.

One could say that, but, it was rejected:


Matthew 16:20-23
King James Version (KJV)

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.


Here's something in the Gospels I guess you have missed:


John 20:8-9
King James Version (KJV)

8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.

9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.


And before you get your hopes up, their "belief" here is that the tomb was empty.

We see they are still unbelieving when the Lord appears to them:


Luke 24:36-39
King James Version (KJV)

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.


They thought He was still dead.


Continued...

 

[Baptist Believer]

Seriously, you need to spend some time dealing with the points.

I've spent 35 years dealing with arguments just like yours. Maybe you should step down from your know-it-all perch and consider what I am telling you?

 

[Darrell C]

Are you so unfamiliar with the Gospels that you do not understand that not one of the disciples was believing on Christ as the Risen Savior?

It was hard to believe on Christ as the risen Savior before the resurrection,

It was impossible.

You can't have men believing on something that hasn't happened, and has not yet been given unto men to understand.

The Old Testament is filled with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, yet...


John 20:8-9
King James Version (KJV)

8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.

9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.


Let me ask you a simple question, BB, do you think men can be eternally redeemed and not be indwelt eternally by God, as He now does, which He did not do prior to the coming of the Comforter, the Promised Spirit of Prophecy?


Continued...

 

[Baptist Believer]

The "Core message" of the Gospel would be found in John 3:16-17!

Even that favorite passage of scripture is not even the "core message" of the gospel. It is bigger and broader than that.

 

[Darrell C]

I've spent 35 years dealing with arguments just like yours. Maybe you should step down from your know-it-all perch and consider what I am telling you?

Maybe you should address the points.

You are imposing something into the existence of the Ages which precede this one (which began at Pentecost when the Spirit was sent) which inevitably diminishes the magnitude of the Cross.

And that is seen in a rejection of the Gospel being solely centered on Christ.

I know it is inadvertent, but, you will not "deal" with the arguments you have been presented with, because they are very basic truths. If Christ denies they were believers (in a New Covenant context of Eternal Redemption)...

...who are you to disagree?

And if you want to, then address the points. Your pride does not count for much in Doctrinal Debate, only your Doctrine. And so far all I see is your opinion presented.


Continued.

 

[Darrell C]

Even that favorite passage of scripture is not even the "core message" of the gospel. It is bigger and broader than that.

Actually it is not. That is the Gospel of Jesus Christ:


John 3:14-17
King James Version (KJV)

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


Not, "So men can get busy and do stuff for the Lord."

Anyone who is genuinely saved will produce fruit, we don't have to try to produce it for them by telling them their discipleship has anything to do with the fact they have been Eternally Redeemed.

He is the Author and Finisher, not we.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Are you so unfamiliar with the Gospels that you do not understand that not one of the disciples was believing on Christ as the Risen Savior?

but that does not mean that they did not already have a saving faith - just like Abraham.

I have never said they did not have saving faith. What I am saying is that they were not eternally forgiven, eternally redeemed, eternally indwelt members of the Body of Christ yet.

Again, Christ ministered under the Law within the framework of the revelation provided to men at that point. He was not revealing the Mystery of the Gospel to men, and in fact, as shown you, was not sending His disciples to the world.

You are equating the saving faith of Abraham and all Old Testament Saints to Salvation in Christ through relationship through the New Covenant. The Old Testament Saints died not having received the promises given, and it was not until Christ died that their sins were redeemed:


Hebrews 9:12-15
King James Version (KJV)

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


They received those promises long after they had died.


Continued...

 

[Baptist Believer]

I agree, the Holy Spirit revealed the Gospel to Paul and gave him an administration of it

But Paul was not the first to hear of it.

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Paul is not writing about how he was the first to hear of the "mystery of Christ", but how the Spirit opens all of our eyes to the mystery of Christ beginning in his generation -- because Christ had come to his generation.

Not sure what Bible you read, but there is no way anyone can draw that conclusion from Scripture.

You are speaking from ignorance. You are misinterpreting the scriptures because you already think you know what they say. You have committed yourself to a method of interpretation (dispensationalism) before you became familiar with the content of the scriptures.

And you tell me to spend time in the Gospels.

Perhaps if you address a couple of these points you will see that the reason no man was believing on Christ as the Risen Savior is because the Mystery of the Gospel of Christ was not being revealed during His Ministry.

Unfortunately for your assertion, John believed (John 20:8).

Also, the women believed. And almost everyone who encountered the risen Lord.

Their issue was more a lack of imagination and cultural expectations, not a matter of not hearing the gospel.

Here's something in the Gospels [Peter objecting to the prediction of the death of Jesus] I guess you have missed:

No, dealt with it previously.

John 20:8-9

King James Version (KJV)

8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.

9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

And before you get your hopes up, their "belief" here is that the tomb was empty.

You are completely wrong here. Peter saw the linen wrappings and knew that the tomb was empty. John (aka, "the other disciple") saw and believed that Jesus had been raised.

We see they are still unbelieving when the Lord appears to them:


Luke 24:36-39
King James Version (KJV)

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

They are coming to terms with it.

They thought He was still dead.

No, they were surprised by Jesus suddenly appearing to them like a spirit. They were in the midst of coming to terms with the reports from the women, Jesus appearing to Simon (Peter) and the report from the two who encountered Jesus on the road to Emmaus.

 

[Darrell C]

Did the thief on the cross have faith in Jesus as the risen Savior?

No, he was justified through his belief just like every Old Testament Saint.

Keep in mind that the Disciples had it revealed to them that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God:

Matthew 16:15-17
King James Version (KJV)

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


But believing that wasn't enough. I would suggest to you that there are many people who believe Christ is Who He said He was, but are not saved, because they have rejected the Ministry of the Comforter.

One must trust in Christ as the Risen Savior to gain life:


John 6:51-53
King James Version (KJV)

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

We are saved only by believing on His death, burial, and Resurrection.

Did the thief on the cross have faith in Jesus as the risen Savior? Of course not, but he developed a saving faith in his last moments.

I agree.

But he was not eternally forgiven, eternally redeemed, eternally indwelt member of the Body of Christ. He would fall into the category of a just spirit made perfect:


Hebrews 12:22-24
King James Version (KJV)

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


Continued...

 

[Baptist Believer]

I have never said they did not have saving faith. What I am saying is that they were not eternally forgiven, eternally redeemed, eternally indwelt members of the Body of Christ yet.

Now you are changing your story.

Again, Christ ministered under the Law within the framework of the revelation provided to men at that point. He was not revealing the Mystery of the Gospel to men, and in fact, as shown you, was not sending His disciples to the world.

Repeating your assertion is not an argument.

You are equating the saving faith of Abraham and all Old Testament Saints to Salvation in Christ through relationship through the New Covenant.

I do it because Paul did that very thing in Galatians 3 and Romans 4.

The Old Testament Saints died not having received the promises given, and it was not until Christ died that their sins were redeemed:

Faith was credited to them as righteousness, long before Jesus died.

 

[Darrell C]

Or so unfamiliar with Acts that you do not understand that the disciples were not Baptized with the Holy Ghost (which Peter defines as the moment of salvation in Acts 11) until Pentecost?

Your interpretation of Peter's statement is quite faulty.

Not at all:


Acts 11:13-18
King James Version (KJV)

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


Peter preached the Gospel. Nothing about Cornelius...

...everything about Christ:


Acts 10:39-44
King James Version (KJV)

39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.


We are born again by the Gospel:


1 Peter 1:3
King James Version (KJV)

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


1 Peter 1:18-23
King James Version (KJV)

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


And the Gospel is never about those who benefit from it, it is about Jesus Christ...alone.


Continued...

 

[Baptist Believer]

Paul preached the Gospel, Christ crucified and risen.

Sure. But of course, the gospel is broader than the atonement.

It works both ways. Paul gives us commentary that helps us understand the Gospel and Christ's teachings.

Sure, but they both taught the same thing.

And it is the Comforter, the Promised Spirit...Who enlightens the natural mind to the Gospel:

Yes.

And the Mystery of the Gospel is revealed by the Spirit of God:

The Spirit made known the mystery of the gospel when Jesus was preaching/teaching it, as well as today. The Spirit was quite active, working with Jesus and empowering His ministry.

You can make the mistake many do in regards to Paul's statement here, and say the Mystery is Gentile Inclusion...

Nope.

...however, what you must consider is that the Mystery was not revealed to the sons of men (and that means all men) in other Ages. It is now revealed to His holy Apostles and Prophets

By Jesus and the work of the Spirit.

Secondly, we know that both Jew and Gentile are made one in Christ only in this Age.

Only in the sense that true Jews (in the spiritual sense) are those with the faith of Abraham. Remember, Abraham was not Jewish. That name came to define his physical descendants, but those who were not his spiritual descendants are not true Israel (Romans 9:6-7).

That clarifies that Christ was not revealing the Mystery of the Gospel during His Ministry.

No it doesn't. That's your imagination.

Apparently you think quoting a bunch of King James scriptures and endlessly repeating the same assertions is the same thing are rightly interpreting scripture. You are mistaken.

 

[Baptist Believer]

It was impossible.

You can't have men believing on something that hasn't happened, and has not yet been given unto men to understand.

The Old Testament is filled with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, yet...

Except John did. And the women. And just about everyone who met the risen Christ.

Let me ask you a simple question, BB, do you think men can be eternally redeemed and not be indwelt eternally by God, as He now does, which He did not do prior to the coming of the Comforter, the Promised Spirit of Prophecy?

Yes. And not only men, but women and children.

Paul made a big deal about it in Galatians 3 and Romans 4.

 

[Darrell C]

Now you are changing your story.

Not at all. Show me Christ preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the Gospels, that's all you have to do.

A few occasions where He speaks of His death, burial, and Resurrection does not equate to what you are trying to make it be, which is that Christ was going around preaching the Gospel of Christ, which is that He (would) die, be buried, and rise again.

Get started, there's a lot to read and you might as well get over your disappointment as quickly as possible, so that you can amend your understanding to what Scripture actually teaches.

After you have failed in that, you can then start to address some simple points already made, such as how it is that Christ was preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ (contrasted with the Gospel of the Kingdom which He did preach, as did His Disciples) and yet the Disciples knew not the scriptures that He should rise again from the dead:

John 20:8-9
King James Version (KJV)

8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.

9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.


Let me ask you a simple question, BB, do you think men can be eternally redeemed and not be indwelt eternally by God, as He now does, which He did not do prior to the coming of the Comforter, the Promised Spirit of Prophecy?


Continued...