On Evolution...

[Particular]

God caused changes with same species though, not into separate and distinct new species!

We can only go by what God has told us. I choose to not declare what God has done or not done when He has not given us any information about it. Instead, I know He tells us that He created. I proclaim what I know, not what I don't know.

 

[Yeshua1]

Of course its a real answer.. You simply do not understand it.
Life on earth is made up of simple elements. Hydrogen, Oxygen, Carbon, Phosphorus, etc..
All those elements were present on the primordial earth
The thing that makes life, is the order of those elements. The bonds they create.
So first, elements on the periodic table bond into molecules (just as 2 hydrogen atoms bond with one oxygen atom to make water)
Once those elements bond into molecules, available energy in the environment can cause those molecules to grow into more complex chain molecules.. That's what DNA is.. a chain molecule..
Now once you have that chain molecule encased in a protective layer.. (ie: the lipid sphere created in thermal vents), then you end up with the first simple protocells.. And none of that requires any interference from magical outside sources.
Elements can and DO bond all on their own.

non living cannot produce life!

 

[Particular]

I have stated that science falls under the umbrella of philosophy. Science is a method of observation and replication. It cannot measure something that is outside of Creation, therefore it cannot measure God. This is where philosophy falls over the top of science. It answers that which science cannot answer.
Peter Kreeft, a Christian philosopher, has provided 20 arguments for God, that may guide the person who doubts the existence of God.
Twenty Arguments God's Existence by Peter Kreeft (& Ronald K. Tacelli)

 

[Yeshua1]

I have stated that science falls under the umbrella of philosophy. Science is a method of observation and replication. It cannot measure something that is outside of Creation, therefore it cannot measure God. This is where philosophy falls over the top of science. It answers that which science cannot answer.
Peter Kreeft, a Christian philosopher, has provided 20 arguments for God, that may guide the person who doubts the existence of God.
Twenty Arguments God's Existence by Peter Kreeft (& Ronald K. Tacelli)

Since life exists, God must also exist, as it cannot have come into being apart from Him!

 

[Deacon]

non living cannot produce life!

But of course! It was the early days of modern science that demonstrated this.

Louis Pasteur about 160 years ago, conducted experiments that disproved

spontaneous generation.
Until that time spontaneous generation was widely accepted, and had been for millennia.

Rob​

​

​

 

[BenWest]

Adam was not born from a primate ape, as he was a direct and special creation of God!

Amen, but Adam's daughters married and produced children with the sons of God (prehistoric man) on Adam's Earth "and also after that" on the present Earth. Genesis 6:4 This changed the sons of God into Humans because they had inherited Adam's superior intelligence, which is like God's. Genesis 3:22

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, (Hebrew-Adam) and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The giants are giants intellectually since they became Humans (descendants of Adam) AFTER their Human parent married one of the sons of God. Cain did it on Adam's Earth and Noah's grandsons, having NO other Humans to marry, did the SAME thing on the present Earth. Genesis 10:8 Today's Humans are the "giants" and have the superior intelligence of Adam. It's the ONLY way to become Human since no amount of mindless time nor zillions of mutations can place God's intelligence into the brains of Apes. That's God's Truth Scripturally, scientifically, historically, genetically and mathematically.

 

[BenWest]

You see, once you free yourself from that rigid interpretation, then you are no longer required to spend the rest of your life trying to explain away the tons of evidence for evolution.. You can simply accept the data for what it actually shows.. That we evolved.

False, since my interpretation agrees with every other discovered Truth of mankind and NO one can refute it because it was written by the Spirit of Truth. Evolution is an incomplete false assumption since it's promoters forgot about the flood leaving NO way for the sons of God to become Humans. (descendants of Adam).

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

But of course! It was the early days of modern science that demonstrated this.

Louis Pasteur about 160 years ago, conducted experiments that disproved

spontaneous generation.
Until that time spontaneous generation was widely accepted, and had been for millennia.
​

Rob

The abiogenesis of KS, and all atheistic evolutionists, is precisely that, spontaneous generation, or else the case presented thus far is as clear as primordial mud.

 

[Yeshua1]

Amen, but Adam's daughters married and produced children with the sons of God (prehistoric man) on Adam's Earth "and also after that" on the present Earth. Genesis 6:4 This changed the sons of God into Humans because they had inherited Adam's superior intelligence, which is like God's. Genesis 3:22

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, (Hebrew-Adam) and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The giants are giants intellectually since they became Humans (descendants of Adam) AFTER their Human parent married one of the sons of God. Cain did it on Adam's Earth and Noah's grandsons, having NO other Humans to marry, did the SAME thing on the present Earth. Genesis 10:8 Today's Humans are the "giants" and have the superior intelligence of Adam. It's the ONLY way to become Human since no amount of mindless time nor zillions of mutations can place God's intelligence into the brains of Apes. That's God's Truth Scripturally, scientifically, historically, genetically and mathematically.

Many would hold that those sons of god, men of reknown and giants were result of mingling between fallen angels and mortal women though, as there were no other humans here other than Adam and Eve....

 

[Yeshua1]

False, since my interpretation agrees with every other discovered Truth of mankind and NO one can refute it because it was written by the Spirit of Truth. Evolution is an incomplete false assumption since it's promoters forgot about the flood leaving NO way for the sons of God to become Humans. (descendants of Adam).

sons of god would be fallen angels, not so call prehistoric humans, as no such thing existed before Adam and eve...

 

[Deacon]

The abiogenesis of KS, and all atheistic evolutionists, is precisely that, spontaneous generation, or else the case presented thus far is as clear as primordial mud.

Look at it this way:

1) You believe that abiogenesis does not occur.
And yet,
2) You believe God created out of nothing.

These beliefs conflict...

You believe that abiogenesis has occurred at least once... and God did it.

Scientists are merely attempting to explore how it might have occurred... how did God do it?

Nothing atheistic about it.

Rob

 

[Yeshua1]

Look at it this way:

1) You believe that abiogenesis does not occur.
And yet,
2) You believe God created out of nothing.

These beliefs conflict...

You believe that abiogenesis has occurred at least once... and God did it.

Scientists are merely attempting to explore how it might have occurred... how did God do it?

Nothing atheistic about it.

Rob

God alone can create life, so its just the same as him speaking forth the Universe to happen, that would both be things science cannot address, as they would be things done by supernatural means by a supernatural Being!

 

[BenWest]

Many would hold that those sons of god, men of reknown and giants were result of mingling between fallen angels and mortal women though, as there were no other humans here other than Adam and Eve....

UnScriptural, since the Angels, which left their first estate are held in chains until Judgment:

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Angels don't have sex:

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

The sons of God (prehistoric people) did. Genesis 6:4

 

[BenWest]

sons of god would be fallen angels, not so call prehistoric humans, as no such thing existed before Adam and eve...

Then you are left with a problem since Cain and Noah's grandsons had NO other Humans to marry. They married and produced children with the sons of God on Adam's Earth AND on the present Earth. Genesis 6:4 That's God's Truth

 

[Yeshua1]

UnScriptural, since the Angels, which left their first estate are held in chains until Judgment:

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Angels don't have sex:

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

The sons of God (prehistoric people) did. Genesis 6:4

Fallen angels would have possessed the flesh of men who order to have relationship with women!

 

[Deacon]

God alone can create life, so its just the same as him speaking forth the Universe to happen, that would both be things science cannot address, as they would be things done by supernatural means by a supernatural Being!

Look Yeshua1, (sigh) you've really got to begin reading with comprehension before you post your questions. Try to understand the argument another person is making... not only here but on all the threads you post on.

KeyserS already addressed this...

You see, when i look at the universe, i see tons of SCIENCE going on..
Gravity holding planets in their orbits, as well as atmospheres on their planets. I see stars using nuclear reactions that end up generating energy to power entire solar systems.. etc..
So if God exists, he would undoubtedly be a master scientist.
And yet, despite all this complex science strewn all across the universe, creationists turn God into the side show magician and limit him to only one way of creating.. "magic poofing"..
Seems to me that with all the science that is going on in the universe, that relegating God to such simplistic methods is the arrogance of those who don't want to take the time to study how he might have really did it..?

Something along these lines has been mentioned in previous threads.

Old-Earth creationists and evolutionary creationists note their awesome wonder observing God's handiwork in creation.

Rob​

 

[JonC]

Six hour warning. Due to its length this thread will be closed sometime after 11:50 pm EST.

At that time please feel free to continue by starting a new thread.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Look at it this way:

1) You believe that abiogenesis does not occur.

And yet,

2) You believe God created out of nothing.

These beliefs conflict...

You believe that abiogenesis has occurred at least once... and God did it.

Scientists are merely attempting to explore how it might have occurred... how did God do it?

Nothing atheistic about it.

Rob

Rob, you may have me confused with someone else. There is no conflict in my beliefs. Where did I say God created life out of nothing? The Bible does not say that, nor do I.

My contention is only that anyone claiming there was no intelligent design involved in their abiogenesis has yet to make their case. The hostile environment, the infusion of information, the orchestration required, point to what atheists deny, that God must have done it.

But you have piqued my curiosity. Just how many atheistic scientists are actively wondering how God did it? That sounds like a real conflict of belief.

 

[Deacon]

Rob, you may have me confused with someone else. There is no conflict in my beliefs. Where did I say God created life out of nothing? The Bible does not say that, nor do I.

My poor paraphrase of Hebrews 11:3

"By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible."​

My contention is only that anyone claiming there was no intelligent design involved in their abiogenesis has yet to make their case. The hostile environment, the infusion of information, the orchestration required, point to what atheists deny, that God must have done it.

But you have piqued my curiosity. Just how many atheistic scientists are actively wondering how God did it? That sounds like a real conflict of belief.​

Does it really matter what the philosophical beliefs of a scientist are?
In my quote of Paul earlier in the thread (Acts 17), he was able to see God's influence even among the polytheistic philosophers of his times.
We can see God through the frames great scientists imagine.

Keep the good, throw out the bad.

Rob​

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Does it really matter what the philosophical beliefs of a scientist are?

This might be a good question for a separate thread.

My observation is that, though it shouldn't, the reality is that it does, often very much so. But not just because of science, but because of philosophy and theology. Much can and has been suppressed, forced, or shaped by scientists, because of philosophical beliefs. We see it frequently in debate and in education.

But I'm sure you are quite aware of this, just as you are aware that many atheists imagine science leads them to not believe in God. And of course this matters most of all when it comes to their eternal souls.