On the criterion of "election"

[Particular]

Gal_2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Php_3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

As I understand Calvinists, this expression would mean that Jesus Christ gives people saving faith; no?

Your prooftexts are out of context.

Galatians 2:15-21 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Philippians 3:7-11 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

Remember that scripture interprets scripture. Your claim about faith is not supported in scripture. Perhaps this is why you bring up the strawman of Calvin. Let us stick with scripture. Shall we?

 

[George Antonios]

Your prooftexts are out of context.

Galatians 2:15-21 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Philippians 3:7-11 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

Remember that scripture interprets scripture. Your claim about faith is not supported in scripture. Perhaps this is why you bring up the strawman of Calvin. Let us stick with scripture. Shall we?

HUNH?

 

[Particular]

HUNH?

??? If you can't grasp scripture, I can't help you.

 

[Reformed1689]

Really? Because in my experience, the of is bedrock for them (although it simply means "in relation to").
So what do you use then?
Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? ?

That's not talking about the same thing. And it is the faithfulness of God.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 7:35 PM Pacific.

 

[George Antonios]

??? If you can't grasp scripture, I can't help you.

Ok bud.

 

[George Antonios]

That's not talking about the same thing. And it is the faithfulness of God.

So what verses do you use then?

 

[Reformed1689]

So what verses do you use then?

Use for what?

 

[George Antonios]

To show that faith is given by God to man. Could you please give me all your verses?

 

[Particular]

Ok bud.

I take it you refuse to read scripture when it shows your opinion is wrong.

 

[Reformed1689]

To show that faith is given by God to man. Could you please give me all your verses?

Off topic as I said.

 

[George Antonios]

Off topic as I said.

Ok so PM me them please.

 

[InTheLight]

So Jesus isn't God. God was surprised and unaware of the centurions faith?

Please point out where I said Jesus was surprised. Or where I suggested he wasn't God.

Note: The centurion already calls Jesus...Lord. A Roman is bending the knee to a lowly Jew. What would ever compel a person in that position to submit himself to a Jew and call him...Lord? Might it be that God had already saved the man? Might it be that the faith the centurion had came from God. Isn't it marvelous that a non-Jew had been chosen for salvation and given faith...even before Jesus atoning sacrifice had happened? Doesn't it express what Paul tells us when he declares that God chose to graft people in so they become the children of the promise?

Might you be inventing scenarios so your doctrine can be shoehorned into scripture?

Sir, the passage you point at presents to you the Supremacy of God and faith, given by God. How I wish you could see this glorious truth.

Yep, a big #5 from a Calvinist. Not surprised in the least.



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[Particular]

Please point out where I said Jesus was surprised. Or where I suggested he wasn't God.




Might you be inventing scenarios so your doctrine can be shoehorned into scripture?



Yep, a big #5 from a Calvinist. Not surprised in the least.



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You said:
Jesus said he found faith in the centurion. That means he didn't gift him with it.

Did God not know it was there? Did he find a surprising thing when he found faith?
I quoted the entire passage so you could see your misunderstanding. Do you see your error or is it a mystery?

 

[InTheLight]

You said:
Jesus said he found faith in the centurion. That means he didn't gift him with it.

Did God not know it was there?

God knew it was there.

Did he find a surprising thing when he found faith?

No.

I quoted the entire passage so you could see your misunderstanding. Do you see your error or is it a mystery?

You are the one misunderstanding it. Jesus said he found faith in this man. You are saying Jesus gifted him with faith. Do you see your error?



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[Reformed]

You guys say that like I did some deceitful or evil thing. Let's focus on the scriptures and not on each others' hearts, shall we?

I did not say you were deceitful or evil. I said you have an agenda that goes beyond honest questioning. You started these threads to ostensibly ask questions. I think you started them to lobby for your position once you got people to engage with you. But hey, that is my opinion and I could be wrong. That said, I will allow other more esteemed board members to interact with you.

Peace.

 

[Particular]

God knew it was there.



No.




You are the one misunderstanding it. Jesus said he found faith in this man. You are saying Jesus gifted him with faith. Do you see your error?



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You are interpreting the word "found" as though it was a lost toy.
You are wrongly interpreting the text. I have shared the entire passage. You are purposely misunderstanding or misusing scripture to try prop up your false correlation.

 

[InTheLight]

You are interpreting the word "found" as though it was a lost toy.

Now you are mind reading.

I am interpreting found as meaning "not a gift." Remember, faith as a gift from God was your assertion and the topic of our conversation.

You are wrongly interpreting the text. I have shared the entire passage. You are purposely misunderstanding or misusing scripture to try prop up your false correlation.

No, you are.

(This is silly.)



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[Particular]

Now you are mind reading.

I am interpreting found as meaning "not a gift." Remember, faith as a gift from God was your assertion and the topic of our conversation.



No, you are.

(This is silly.)



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How do you jump from found to "faith is not a gift?
Did the centurion call Jesus, a poor man from Nazareth, Lord? Why would he, a man of authority in the Roman army, call Jesus, Lord?
It is your attempt to make "found" mean "faith is not a gift" that is wrong. You are asserting a correlation that is not there.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

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