Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Yeshua1]

But who makes the determination regarding those good works? Who decides there are enough good works or works that are good enough? Can we be arrogant enough to appoint ourselves such judges? And if so is that arrogant judgment not the opposite of the good works God has ordained for our lives?

When we appoint ourselves fruit inspectors are we not violating 2 Corinthians 10:12? "For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise."

Wouldn't we be more wise to see to our own spiritual lives rather than presuming to pass judgment on the spiritual lives of others?

Well, paul stated that there would be some saved as it were thru the fire, who has ALL of the so called good works burned away!

 

[SheepWhisperer]

I am going to take a contrarian position and argue that we are not once saved, always saved. Now, as this debate dovetails with the debate of whether we have choice or some free aspect of the will, I believe it is and will be shown to be couched in Arminian vs Calvinistic language and arguments.

The following is a very simple argument I will build on in time in this thread. Now, I will be doing bible study as this debate evolves and I will find all the verses I can and post them. This will help me better argue my contrarian position in new ways.

For now I will point out that Believers, whom the New Testament talks to, are regularly called by Jesus and the apostles to watch their behavior. Not only are they told this, but they are warned repeatedly of horrible consequences. Of these consequences, the one that jumps out most especially is eternity in hell. We often assume these verses apply to false Christians, but how do we define a false Christian? Why not just use the rubric that one who does not live doing the Father's will is in fact lost. This would seem to be a great way of making the Gospel message make sense given the hard statements of Matthew 7, the Book of James, and the Book of 1 John. These statements are no longer hard if we believe that we have always had the choice to jettison our faith. Also, how in the world does any of this fit into the conception that a person has all of their sins past, present, and future paid for? The weight of so many warnings should give pause to those that think they are permanently safe.

In addition, the disciples are even told to not judge outsiders but to instead judge amongst themselves and rebuke each other so as to be free of sin. Relatedly, we are told to fear the Lord all throughout the bible, including the New Testament. However, how can we have a healthy fear of the Lord, and thus be deadly afraid of rejecting His will, if we believe ourselves to be eternally safe? Why fear God at that point?

Lastly, if there is no certainty to our salvation in this life, does that mean we have so called free will or that God's plan is more complex than previously believed

Again, I will have the verses to back up my basic assertions and add to my statements in time. I just don't have the time to look all of them up tonight.

#1 Because we who are saved are chastened. God chastises and judges His own, even to the point of physical death.
#2 If we fail to do His will it affects others, including our loved ones.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

When a person gets saved, they are indwelled with the Spirit of God and sealed unto the day of redemption. They "hath" everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation. It's a done deal. But, though we do have "free will", God does not let us get by with a "license to sin" because He chastens His own.

 

[Yeshua1]

#1 Because we who are saved are chastened. God chastises and judges His own, even to the point of physical death.
#2 If we fail to do His will it affects others, including our loved ones.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

When a person gets saved, they are indwelled with the Spirit of God and sealed unto the day of redemption. They "hath" everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation. It's a done deal. But, though we do have "free will", God does not let us get by with a "license to sin" because He chastens His own.

We also have the new nature that will not want to sin, and the Holy Spirit also does not want us to sin!

 

[tyndale1946]

We also have the new nature that will not want to sin, and the Holy Spirit also does not want us to sin!

Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Brother Glen

 

[SheepWhisperer]

We also have the new nature that will not want to sin, and the Holy Spirit also does not want us to sin!

Right! Actually, that "new nature", "the Spirit", cannot sin, because he is "born of God". If we "walk in the Spirit" we "shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh", the Bible says.. Unfortunately, we walk too much in the flesh.

 

[Mr. Davis]

How about this verse? Matt. 10:22 You will be hated by all men for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Read the context carefully! It refers to the same period of time that Christ mentioned in Matthew 24. The words that Christ uses there are identical.

Or this one?

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Well, you are ignoring the fact that despite God's WISHING, most of mankind will refuse to Repent!

I believe those verses pretty well kill calvinism.

No, you are not aware of all of the Scriptures that support Calvinism!

I believe EVERYONE has the OPPORTUNITY to be saved, that God did NOT create anyone solely for the purpose of going to hell.

No, again. There is no "OPPORTUNITY" to get saved. Only those that God calls will receive a new heart so that they can heed the inward call of the Spirit unto Salvation. God has mercy on some. The rest receive His justice. There is no injustice with God.

And I believe Jesus will ALWAYS do HIS part & never abandon any saint...

Jesus has done His part. He will in no wise cast out any who belong to Him. (John )

but it may be possible for one to abandon Jesus...

In John 10:28-29, no one can "jump" out of His iron grip. In fact, those who are not faithful, are yet saved, because He is faithful to His own: (Timothy). In that same couplet of verses, He says that those who deny Him He will deny. But, recall that Peter denied Him. And Jesus restored him.

I don't plan to ever do that, so I have no way to find out.

All those who believe the "free will" myth, believe that they will be faithful unto death. But many are not, and they go to Hell.

But I DO know of several individuals who turned thelr backs on their faith...

They may have never been saved. 'They were with us but their departing shows that they were never really a part of us.' (1 John, my paraphrase).

One may argue they never had TRUE faith to begin with, but they certainly did outwardly.

Many professing "Christians" make an outward show of their 'faith'. They are not really saved.

Then, there's this very-telling verses:

Hebrews 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

Did you follow Steven Yeadon's previous thread? If you did, you must remember my post toward the end of it. I
contrasted these set of verses and the companion verses in chapter 10, with a list of verses by Jesus, Paul, and John. There is no contradiction. Heb 6 refers to those professing Christ who were never fully illumined by the Holy Spirit. There were severe consequences. I contrasted those verses in chapter 10 with the severe judgment (discipline or chastening) with 1 Cor 11. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. I cited verses from John to further substantiate this fact. If you didn't follow the thread, go and read my post now before making any more comments. Ignorance can be embarrassing.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Guys , I still have some work to do outside for the hurricane, as I live in Florida. I'll start on a second half to my last post and see how long it takes for it to be done (maybe not even today).

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Guys , I still have some work to do outside for the hurricane, as I live in Florida. I'll start on a second half to my last post and see how long it takes for it to be done (maybe not even today).

Me too, bro. Be safe.

 

[Mr. Davis]

In reference to (Matthew 7:13-14): With Christianity as the world's largest religion and a third of earth's population, how can it be said that we are the few who even found the path to salvation?

In reference to (Matthew 7:24-27): Doesn't this speak to the fact that anyone who does not implement the Sermon on the Mount is doomed? Especially when you consider that it comes just after a scary warning in (Matthew 7:21-23) about false disciples, who had miraculous good works even, but failed to obey Jesus and His Father, the Lord, and were thus cast into hell.

In reference to the "sin lists" of (Galatians 5:19-21), (Colossians 3:5-6), (Romans 1:26-31), (1 Timothy 1:9-10), (Revelation 21:8), (2 Corinthians 12:20-21), and (Ephesians 5:3-7): Why is the bible not literally true in these cases, that those who do such things in this life are in fact doomed to hell? Even those who claim salvation and do such things, as this is addressed originally to disciples.

In reference to both (Mark 9:43) (Matthew 10:28) and (Matthew 5:30): why are the disciples even told this stuff? I mean, if they are eternally safe as disciples why such dire warnings about going to hell because of sinning? Also, don't these verses raise the specter that it is a lifestyle of sin in disobedience to Jesus' commands that is indicative of a false disciple?

In reference to (Matthew 7:17-20): Why are those prophets, and nowadays teachers, who bear any bad fruit at all in their lives and teaching not treated as false? I know this could be said of the vast majority of teachers nowadays form Sunday school to the pulpit, but isn't their rejection what the bible asks for? I will also mention (1 Timothy 5:20) as support for this since it demands that elders who sin be rebuked publicly in front of the congregation so that no one will follow after their example. However, I don't want to go too far with this, as (1 Timothy 5:19) tells us to not accuse an elder of sin unless there are 2-3 witnesses.

In reference to (Romans 8:9-13), (Galatians 5:22-25): How can a person's life that is not dominated by the victory of the Spirit over sin, a Spirit that dwells within them and gives them his fruit, ever lead to a remotely normal life like those around us? Yet, polls show that evangelical Christians often sin as boldly as atheists, people whom the bible labels vile fools (Psalms 14:1).

In reference to (1 Corinthians 15:1-2): How can believers have faith in Jesus and yet believe in vain?

In reference to (1 Corinthians 9:27): How can Paul believe he will be disqualified from the prize at all if he does not try so hard to follow Jesus?

Don't these verses indicate that it is by our works that we show the world we are Jesus Christ's disciples and children of the Lord? I am not saying Jesus' Cross does not save, as it is by faith in Jesus and his death and resurrection that we are saved at all. Instead I am saying that those who have the Holy Spirit living inside them and are truly children of God will be known by their works. Because Jesus and the Lord live within them.

OK, I will stop as I amazed by these arguments and the sheer number of verses I have left to go through. This seems like the halfway point. I'll continue later today or tomorrow with the second half.

Nearly all of these verses and arguments were discussed at length in the "Once Saved, Always Saved" thread in the Calvinism / Arminianism Archive. You should check it out. I mentioned to you before that repeating what has already been said is a waste of time!

May the Lord bless you with an unbiased mind. You have said a lot in your introductory post here. But you should appreciate the time and effort that other posters have gone to. Please reply to the comments already given.

I'll be praying for your safety there in Florida. Reply when you are able.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Me too, bro. Be safe.

Brother, you too.

-EDIT-

I'll explore the archives more for this forum. That criticism that I should have done more research in the archives is justified.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

This is simply the second half of the research I said I would post. I have gotten myself confused as I do not understand what position is biblical anymore now that I have so many verses that are against once saved, always saved. So, I will now head to the archives and post based on my research in them from now on. Veterans of this forum will likely find little, if anything, new in my work below, to let people know.

Why are we told, really at all in the bible, to keep the commandments in order to inherit eternal life? (Luke 13:1-5)

Why are we warned to keep the faith to the tortured end and also to have good works or fruit to inherit eternal life? (Luke 13:6-9), (Matthew 10:22), (Luke 21:19), (Galatians 6:7-8), (Hebrews 10:26-39), and (Matthew 24:12-13) among many others you can find here in the cross references and treasury of scripture on the right side of the screen:
Hebrews 10:36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised..
Why are these warnings so dire, as if we could fail the test?

Why are we told to pray regularly that our Heavenly Father, the Lord, forgive our sins as we forgive the sins of others? In addition, why are we told that our Father in Heaven will not forgive us if we do not forgive others? (Matthew 6:12-15)

(Revelation 3:5) shows that the book of life in the New Testament is just like it is in the Old Testament. Names are blotted out for unrepentant sins before the Lord.

(Luke 12:4-5) shows we are to be terrified as disciples as to what the Lord will do to us over disobedience. That He has the power to throw us in hell, so be terrified and live a righteous life. In addition, why are we told to live in fear and trembling as we live out our Christian lives (Philippians 2:12). As someone who has trembled before in fear, that only happens if the thing you could do wrong is life or death. Of course, once our love towards the Lord given what He has given us is mature, we are to live like Jesus did in loving submission to our Heavenly Father (1 John 4:18-19).

(1 John 2-:3-6), (1 John 2:29), (1 John 3:3-10), and (1 John 3:14-15) all show that righteous living is required to even fully consider a person a believer. Otherwise they are clearly liars.

(James 2:14-26) and (Hebrews 6:4-6) make so much more sense if it is assumed we are proven false Christians by our deeds at the very least. I even see the possibility of an argument against eternal security of the believer based on all of these verses.

Lastly, why are almost every single one of these warnings addressed to believers?

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

Brother, you too.

-EDIT-

I'll explore the archives more for this forum. That criticism that I should have done more research in the archives is justified.

Prayers for you.

As to the OP, I rely on the word of God.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning (James 1:17).


But, God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life (Romans 5:8-10).


And, this is the promise that He hath promised us, even eternal life (1 John 2:25).


And, for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance (Hebrews 9:15).


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life” (John 6:47).


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).


“Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal” (Matthew 25:45-46).


That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:15-16).


Then said Jesus unto the twelve, “Will ye also go away?” Then Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life” (John 6:67-68).


These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (John 17:1-3).


Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation m received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God (1 Peter 1:18-21).


I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever; nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past (Ecclesiastes 3:14-15).


And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose (Romans 8:28).


“For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. How think ye? If a man have a hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And, if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish” (Matthew 18:11-14).


“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And, I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one” (John 10:27-30).


“And, this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” (John 6:39).


“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition [Judas]; that the scripture might be fulfilled” (John 17:12).

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not (1 John 5:18).


“But, if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But, when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils” (Luke 11:20-22).


Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that in you, than he that is in the world
(1 John 4:4).


There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it (1 Corinthians 10:13).



“For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect” (Matthew 24:24).



They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us (1 John 2:19).


Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:2-6).



And, the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen (2 Timothy 4:18).


Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen (Jude 24-25).


The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD ; and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand. I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed (Psalm 37:23-26).


And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24).


“Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat; but I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not” (Luke 22:31).

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Prayers for you.

As to the OP, I rely on the word of God.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning (James 1:17).


But, God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life (Romans 5:8-10).


And, this is the promise that He hath promised us, even eternal life (1 John 2:25).


And, for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance (Hebrews 9:15).


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life” (John 6:47).


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).


“Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal” (Matthew 25:45-46).


That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:15-16).


Then said Jesus unto the twelve, “Will ye also go away?” Then Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life” (John 6:67-68).


These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (John 17:1-3).


Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation m received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God (1 Peter 1:18-21).


I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever; nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past (Ecclesiastes 3:14-15).


And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose (Romans 8:28).

Wow, thank you very much. That will make my research much more straightforward.

For those who believe in TULIP, what I need most from you guys and gals are your go to bible verses, so I can weigh what is in the scriptures on this issue. Thanks in advance.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

Wow, thank you very much. That will make my research much more straightforward.

For those who believe in TULIP, what I need most from you guys and gals are your go to bible verses, so I can weigh what is in the scriptures on this issue. Thanks in advance.

Steven, The verses I provided are those that support Perseverance of the Saints.

Here is a short book written by James McClarty who is the Pastor of Grace Assembly in Smyrna, TN.

http://salvationbygrace.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/bygracealone.pdf

You can read if for free online pdf. You can buy the book at Amazon.

The entire book is about 143 pages, and that includes pages and pages of biblical proof texts.

Jim explains all of TULIP. It's concise yet thorough.

He also has a YouTube account.

God bless you for your diligence.

 

[Mr. Davis]

Steven Yeadon, said:

This is simply the second half of the research I said I would post. I have gotten myself confused as I do not understand what position is biblical anymore...

You did not heed my warning in your "Confusion" thread! At that time you were espousing Calvinism! Then you switched to "free choice." If you are again, study and reply to those comments here that support Calvinism

 

[HankD]

Once Saved, Always Saved?

Yes.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jesus doesn't lie.

HankD

 

[Mr. Davis]

Sorry, I ran out of time editing my previous post. Here it is in complete form.

Steven Yeadon, said:

This is simply the second half of the research I said I would post. I have gotten myself confused as I do not understand what position is biblical anymore...

You did not heed my warning (that this could happen) in your "Confusion" thread! At one time, you were certain of Calvinism! Then you switched to "free choice." If you are confused again, study and reply to the comments here that support Calvinism. Also, review the Calvinist arguments in the Archive. Maybe, just maybe, you'll regain your Calvinist footing.

Nearly ALL of your "free choice" arguments here have been refuted Scripturally in the Archive. Your "warning" passages are very likely covered there also.

The words, "Once Saved, Always Saved," may actually have been part of a longer title, but being abbreviated OSAS. If you have trouble finding it in the Archive, don't hesitate to ask someone.

I personally recommend tyndale1946, SovereignGrace, or TCassidy. They are extremely knowledgeable!

 

[tyndale1946]

Once Saved, Always Saved?

Yes.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jesus doesn't lie.

HankD

I remember this saying back in the day... God said It!.. I believe it!.. And that settles it!... Brother Glen

 

[HankD]

I remember this saying back in the day... God said It!.. I believe it!.. And that settles it!... Brother Glen

Me2.

Sounds good!

HankD

 

[Yeshua1]

Wow, thank you very much. That will make my research much more straightforward.

For those who believe in TULIP, what I need most from you guys and gals are your go to bible verses, so I can weigh what is in the scriptures on this issue. Thanks in advance.

On this Op itself, Jesus stated that he would raise up ALL whom are saved, that he will lose NONE, so why not trust in Him knowing this issue?