Bronconagurski
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If we need you, we'll "CALL" Unless, of course, you are unable to respond. Then we will know that you are not just rejecting the call.
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One call...or two
- Thread starter Iconoclast
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If we need you, we'll "CALL" Unless, of course, you are unable to respond. Then we will know that you are not just rejecting the call.
Can we look at it in this manner?
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Therefore they have by God, through the declaration of the gospel, been moved from unbelief unto belief.
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Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
If we need you, we'll "CALL" Unless, of course, you are unable to respond. Then we will know that you are not just rejecting the call.
But how, if he is truly dead and gone, will he actually receive the call, much lest reject it? For a corpse can no more reject a calling than he can receive it. :laugh:
From the shorter catechism;
I had to edit it. to make it fit
I had to edit it. to make it fit
Donald Grey Barnhouse gave this explanation on the differences between the general call and the effectual call to salvation.
‘If men heed no more than the outward call, they become members of the visible church. If the inward call is heard in our hearts, we become members of the invisible church. The first call unites us merely to a group of professing members; but the inward call unites us to Christ Himself.’ Donald Grey Barnhouse, God’s Grace, God’s Freedom, God’s Heirs: Expositions of Bible Doctrines 7:171
“The outward call may bring with it a certain intellectual knowledge of the truth; the inward call brings us the faith of the heart, the hope which anchors us forever to Christ and the love which must ever draw us back to Him who first loved us. The one can end in formalism, the other in true life. The outward call may curb the tendencies of the old nature and keep a soul in outward morality; the inward call will cure the plague that is in us and bring us on to triumph in Christ” (God’s Heirs: Exposition of Bible Doctrines . . . , vol. 7, pp. 171, 172).
‘If men heed no more than the outward call, they become members of the visible church. If the inward call is heard in our hearts, we become members of the invisible church. The first call unites us merely to a group of professing members; but the inward call unites us to Christ Himself.’ Donald Grey Barnhouse, God’s Grace, God’s Freedom, God’s Heirs: Expositions of Bible Doctrines 7:171
“The outward call may bring with it a certain intellectual knowledge of the truth; the inward call brings us the faith of the heart, the hope which anchors us forever to Christ and the love which must ever draw us back to Him who first loved us. The one can end in formalism, the other in true life. The outward call may curb the tendencies of the old nature and keep a soul in outward morality; the inward call will cure the plague that is in us and bring us on to triumph in Christ” (God’s Heirs: Exposition of Bible Doctrines . . . , vol. 7, pp. 171, 172).
Effectual Calling and Regeneration
by D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones
Now there is a portion of Scripture which is a perfect illustration of this. The followers of Christ who were even described as ‘disciples’ were divided up into two groups. One group decided that they would never listen to Him again. They left Him and went home. And when He turned to the others and said, ‘Will ye also go away?’ Peter said, ‘Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the word of eternal life’ ( John 6:67–68 ). The one group disbelieved and went home, the others, who had heard exactly the same things, stayed with Him, wanted to hear more, and rejoiced in it. What makes the difference? It is that the word was effectual in the case of the saved in a way that it was not effectual in the case of the unsaved who refused it.
Then, another one is to be found in 1 Corinthians 1:2 . It is a statement that you will find in other places as well: ‘Unto the church of God which is at Corinth to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints …’. it is not simply that they are called saints, they are called to be saints. And then, in that same chapter, the Apostle repeats it. He says, ‘We preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness’ — then notice — ‘but unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God, and the wisdom of God’ ( 1 Cor. 1:23– 24 ). Now there are people to whom the preaching of Christ is foolishness; they are the unsaved. But the saved he again describes as those who are called .
And let me give you one other example. Take that great statement made by the apostle Peter: ‘But ye,’ he says, referring to Christian believers, ‘are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light’ ( 1 Pet. 2:9–10 ). God has called them out, and because they are the saved, He has called them effectually. The call of the gospel has gone to many others but they are not the people Peter is talking about. He is talking about these people who correspond to Israel after the flesh in the Old Testament. He applies to them the very terminology that was applied to the Children of Israel, just as the Ten Commandments and the moral law were given to them. Peter uses the same words — they are the called, the ‘Israel of God’, called to show forth His praises. Now it is obvious therefore that in these people the call has been effectual; that is the teaching of these scriptures.
http://www.monergism.com/effectualregeneration.html
by D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones
Now there is a portion of Scripture which is a perfect illustration of this. The followers of Christ who were even described as ‘disciples’ were divided up into two groups. One group decided that they would never listen to Him again. They left Him and went home. And when He turned to the others and said, ‘Will ye also go away?’ Peter said, ‘Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the word of eternal life’ ( John 6:67–68 ). The one group disbelieved and went home, the others, who had heard exactly the same things, stayed with Him, wanted to hear more, and rejoiced in it. What makes the difference? It is that the word was effectual in the case of the saved in a way that it was not effectual in the case of the unsaved who refused it.
Then, another one is to be found in 1 Corinthians 1:2 . It is a statement that you will find in other places as well: ‘Unto the church of God which is at Corinth to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints …’. it is not simply that they are called saints, they are called to be saints. And then, in that same chapter, the Apostle repeats it. He says, ‘We preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness’ — then notice — ‘but unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God, and the wisdom of God’ ( 1 Cor. 1:23– 24 ). Now there are people to whom the preaching of Christ is foolishness; they are the unsaved. But the saved he again describes as those who are called .
And let me give you one other example. Take that great statement made by the apostle Peter: ‘But ye,’ he says, referring to Christian believers, ‘are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light’ ( 1 Pet. 2:9–10 ). God has called them out, and because they are the saved, He has called them effectually. The call of the gospel has gone to many others but they are not the people Peter is talking about. He is talking about these people who correspond to Israel after the flesh in the Old Testament. He applies to them the very terminology that was applied to the Children of Israel, just as the Ten Commandments and the moral law were given to them. Peter uses the same words — they are the called, the ‘Israel of God’, called to show forth His praises. Now it is obvious therefore that in these people the call has been effectual; that is the teaching of these scriptures.
http://www.monergism.com/effectualregeneration.html
Now I want you to look at the word "called" here, it's part of a group of words that come out of a root kaleo...kaleo. Kaleo means to call into one's presence, or to summon. It is used, for example, in Matthew 2:7 where it says, "Herod called the magi into his court and they came." The word can be used in less serious circumstances, but it is the word that is used in the Scripture to speak of a summons. In fact, it is so descriptive that we as believers actually are "the called." We are the called, the church is the ekklesia, not from kaleo,but from ek-kaleo. Kaleois to be summoned, ek-kaleois a stronger word, a stronger summons, to be called out and the church then becomes the noun form of that verb, the called out ones. So if you ask what is a church? It is the assembly of those called, summoned.
Now this becomes very clear throughout the Scripture, not just Romans 8. So I want to do a little Bible study with you, go back to Romans 1 and I think you're going to enjoy this, and it's going to stretch you into a wonderful new category of understanding. Paul...Romans 1:1, "A bondservant of Christ Jesus, called as an Apostle, set apart for the gospel of God." He's a good one to look at for this kind of call because when the call of God came on the life of the Apostle Paul, it was a sovereign divine gracious and irresistible summons. He was slammed in to the dirt on the road to Damascus with nothing to do but respond, he is called as an Apostle. Down in verse 6 he's talking about the obedience of faith in verse 5, obeying the gospel, among whom you also are the called. You are the called ones of Jesus Christ to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called saints, called holy ones. You are the called, the holy ones, the ones called out.
All of these quotes indicate a general call to be saved from sins power, and yet there is a clear call into kingdom life and service, to those who experience the inner working of the Spirit.
Now this becomes very clear throughout the Scripture, not just Romans 8. So I want to do a little Bible study with you, go back to Romans 1 and I think you're going to enjoy this, and it's going to stretch you into a wonderful new category of understanding. Paul...Romans 1:1, "A bondservant of Christ Jesus, called as an Apostle, set apart for the gospel of God." He's a good one to look at for this kind of call because when the call of God came on the life of the Apostle Paul, it was a sovereign divine gracious and irresistible summons. He was slammed in to the dirt on the road to Damascus with nothing to do but respond, he is called as an Apostle. Down in verse 6 he's talking about the obedience of faith in verse 5, obeying the gospel, among whom you also are the called. You are the called ones of Jesus Christ to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called saints, called holy ones. You are the called, the holy ones, the ones called out.
http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/90-296
All of these quotes indicate a general call to be saved from sins power, and yet there is a clear call into kingdom life and service, to those who experience the inner working of the Spirit.
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This needed it's own space ...it is most instructive and challenging;
Given my affirmation of a double intention in Christ’s atoning work, in a few previous posts, I was struck by a pleasant harmony between that understanding and the classical Reformed distinction, restated by Horton, “between the general call, which is universal, and the effectual call, through which the Spirit draws the elect to Christ” (101 [emphasis mine]). I’ll be happy if you notice how well this coincides with Christ’s intent to make atonement for sin that is universally sufficient, while intending in a more particular way that this should result in the salvation of those whom the Father has chosen in him. The general call to repentance and faith, which we are commissioned to make to all the peoples of the world until the end of the age, rests upon the universal sufficiency of Christ’s atoning work. And we enter upon that evangelistic mission, in confidence that God will use our ministry to effectively draw his people to himself, through the Spirit’s inner work.
from a blog about Michael Hortons comments.
from a blog about Michael Hortons comments.
In the first century was Israel hardened/blinded or was Israel in part blinded/hardened?
If in part, just what part were blinded/hardened?
Icon,
I am running out the door, but I just wanted to mention that I am enjoying your posts.
With respect to calling and the call, I think we are seeing a wide scope for it, which is instructive. With respect to the call looking at the word going out to sinners and taking it to the point of justification I see three aspects (that I think we all can agree are there but would debate about the mechanics.)
One is the summons/call or invitation which goes out to all ie. Mar 16:15
Two is the drawing aspect of the call ie Jo 6:44, 12:32
Three is the response ie Acts 13:48
As Allan intimated and trying to take this slowly and glean as much as possible so that it is not just an argument but an edifying debate, perhaps it would be good to look at each of these aspects separately and explore them. I think we will find areas of debate in each.
The outward call :
who is it to/for
what is its purpose
why
is there a difference in these answers for believers vs. unbelievers?
etc.
This subject alone could go into many many areas of doctrine but looking at moving towards drawing and response I wonder what we can glean from just this aspect and where would we differ/debate
I am running out the door, but I just wanted to mention that I am enjoying your posts.
With respect to calling and the call, I think we are seeing a wide scope for it, which is instructive. With respect to the call looking at the word going out to sinners and taking it to the point of justification I see three aspects (that I think we all can agree are there but would debate about the mechanics.)
One is the summons/call or invitation which goes out to all ie. Mar 16:15
Two is the drawing aspect of the call ie Jo 6:44, 12:32
Three is the response ie Acts 13:48
As Allan intimated and trying to take this slowly and glean as much as possible so that it is not just an argument but an edifying debate, perhaps it would be good to look at each of these aspects separately and explore them. I think we will find areas of debate in each.
The outward call :
who is it to/for
what is its purpose
why
is there a difference in these answers for believers vs. unbelievers?
etc.
This subject alone could go into many many areas of doctrine but looking at moving towards drawing and response I wonder what we can glean from just this aspect and where would we differ/debate
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
In part. There were a remnant reserved from the hardening. Paul would have been one of those 'individuals' chosen for the 'noble purpose' of being an apostle, while most of the rest of Israel was being hardened. But that doesn't mean they can't be saved. In fact, in Romans 11:14, Paul anticipates that they could be provoked to envy and saved, so clearly just because someone is hardened/cut off it doesn't mean they are certainly condemned (as would be the case if hardened = non-elect)
i posted the links to put more ideas on the table....I am enjoying how you view and expand on the verses also....this is more how I view a message board be used as an instument to edify each other.
I am seeing that 'calling" has much to do with God's work of building His church here and now...and not as much on just individual salvation...as important as that is....we are built up together ...living stones..molded and fashioned together a habitation of God. if each local church got this idea, rather than...we are spectators watching the pastor do everything...
going to get some food now...then look at two or three books on this topic.:wavey::wavey:
Consider these verses in the context of the call:
Isa 45:22-25 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified and shall glory.
Isa 55:5-13 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.
Rom 4:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Php 2:9-13 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven , and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Isa 45:22-25 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified and shall glory.
Isa 55:5-13 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.
Rom 4:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Php 2:9-13 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven , and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
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It may take a while but I will try to fine the verse and or verses where Christ speaks of building the outward and inward called church.
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And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Is a witness and a calling the same?
Of course Jesus said, "repent ye, and believe the gospel."
Where does repentance and belief come from?
Paul was going down the road in unbelief. Where did his belief all of a sudden come from? From his heart of from a call?
Is a witness and a calling the same?
Of course Jesus said, "repent ye, and believe the gospel."
Where does repentance and belief come from?
Paul was going down the road in unbelief. Where did his belief all of a sudden come from? From his heart of from a call?
All portions of the OT. especially the last portions os Isa. speak of the gentiles being called in mass quantities into the Kingdom:
1 Behold, the Lord hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
12 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the Lord: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.
Greek: Hothen, adelphoi hagioi, kleseos epouraniou metochoi, katanoesate (2PAAM) ton apostolon kai arxierea tes homologias hemon Iesoun,
Amplified: SO THEN, brethren, consecrated and set apart for God, who share in the heavenly calling, [thoughtfully and attentively] consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest Whom we confessed [as ours when we embraced the Christian faith]. (Amplified Bible - Lockman)
KJV: Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
NLT: And so, dear brothers and sisters who belong to God and are bound for heaven, think about this Jesus whom we declare to be God's Messenger and High Priest. (NLT - Tyndale House)
Phillips: So then, my brothers in holiness who share the highest of all callings, I want you to think of the messenger and High Priest of the faith we hold, Christ Jesus. (Phillips: Touchstone)
Weymouth: Therefore, holy brethren, sharers with others in a heavenly invitation, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest whose followers we profess to be.
Wuest: Wherefore, brethren, set-apart ones for God and His service, participants in the summons from heaven, consider attentively and thoughtfully the Ambassador and High Priest of our confession, Jesus, (Eerdmans)
Young's Literal: Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession.
Amplified: SO THEN, brethren, consecrated and set apart for God, who share in the heavenly calling, [thoughtfully and attentively] consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest Whom we confessed [as ours when we embraced the Christian faith]. (Amplified Bible - Lockman)
KJV: Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
NLT: And so, dear brothers and sisters who belong to God and are bound for heaven, think about this Jesus whom we declare to be God's Messenger and High Priest. (NLT - Tyndale House)
Phillips: So then, my brothers in holiness who share the highest of all callings, I want you to think of the messenger and High Priest of the faith we hold, Christ Jesus. (Phillips: Touchstone)
Weymouth: Therefore, holy brethren, sharers with others in a heavenly invitation, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest whose followers we profess to be.
Wuest: Wherefore, brethren, set-apart ones for God and His service, participants in the summons from heaven, consider attentively and thoughtfully the Ambassador and High Priest of our confession, Jesus, (Eerdmans)
Young's Literal: Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession.
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I think that clearly the plan is the gospel call going worldwide, and reaping a harvest.