"Oneness Pentecostals" cult!

[nunatak]

I believe that when I wrote this, I was trying to say that in general, the people who adopt Oneness Pentecostalism are Christians. I was giving my biggest reason why, while making clear that I do not agree with that system.

I see.

So then, how do you define "Christian?"

Oneness Pentecostalism rejects salvation by grace alone, through faith alone. Their doctrine rejects the righteousness that comes by faith. They reject the doctrine of justification.

Is the doctrine of Oneness Pentecostalism true Christianity just because it professes to call on the name of Christ?

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

 

[Darron Steele]

I see.

So then, how do you define "Christian?"

Oneness Pentecostalism rejects salvation by grace alone, through faith alone. Their doctrine rejects the righteousness that comes by faith. They reject the doctrine of justification.

Is the doctrine of Oneness Pentecostalism true Christianity just because it professes to call on the name of Christ?

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

How do I "define Christian'?" Simple. I do not. I simply adopt how the Bible defines "Christian."

The term “Christian” is a Bible term from the New Testament-era. When it comes to rightly understanding a New Testament-era term, we cannot do so based on disputes from any time afterward. That includes church disputes from the earliest centuries afterward or from the 16th-20th centuries. I believe that we should go with Bible meanings for Bible terms.

Scripture uses “believers” (NASB) for those in Christ’s church in such places as Acts 2:47+5:14, Acts 10:45, 1 Thessalonians 1:7, and 1 Timothy 6:2; Scripture uses “disciples” (ESV) in the same way in such places as Galatians 1:13+Acts 9:1, Acts 14:20-2, and Acts 11:26. Acts 11:26 has “the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch” (NASB); the Greek word translated “disciples” is plural for “one who follows one’s teachings.”* A Christian is simply someone who believes on Jesus Christ so as to be a follower of His teachings.

It is not a popular definition. Many people want it to mean `person who agrees adequately with me.' However, the Bible teaches the widely-unpopular definition, so regardless of popularity, it is true.

As for what Jesus Christ was talking about in Matthew 7:20-3, read the rest of His sermon in Matthew 5-7. It has been my observation that Oneness Pentecostals follow those teachings of Jesus Christ with no less zeal than Christians in other Christian groups.

____
*Vine, et al, Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary, page 171 NT.

 

[DHK]

But my point and question to DHK REGARDING the Trinity is in John 4 Jesus talked about the Father and said pertaining to the Father, that God is Spirit...

SO...

In a radical Trinity view where they are all co-equal, co-eternal as Trinity is usually described...my question then if the Father is Spirit...IS the HOLY SPIRIT "ANOTHER" Spirit?

This has plagued me for quite a time.

The clearest verse on the trinity is in 1 John 5:7

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

God is one; but more specifically there is only one God. That is a more simple and direct way of looking at it. There is only one God. There was none before Him and there will be none after Him. The Old Testaments prophets (especially Isaiah) emphasized this truth over and over again. There is only one God.

However this one God is a triune God. In this one God are three separate persons--not three gods. It is more accurate, I believe, to refer to Christ as the Word (1John 5:7; John 1:1,14), for so He was referred to before He came to earth, from all eternity. It was the Word that became flesh and dwelt among us. Then He was known as Jesus Christ. He was not a manifestation of the Father. He was the second person of the triune Godhead. He has existed from all eternity (John 1:1). He is the one that created all things (John 1:3; Col.1:16). He only became a man when he was born of a virgin. Before that time He also was Spirit, as the Father was, as the Holy Spirit. All three persons speparte and co-equal with each other but being one God.

We know and understand that God the Father, Jehovah is God.
Many times Jesus Christ revealed Himself in the Old Testament as God.
--He was seen with the three Hebrew chidren walking in the furnace, and identified as Christ.
--He was identified by Joshua as the Captain of the Lord's Hosts, or Jesus Christ.
--Isaiah calls Him: wonderful, counsellor, the mighty GOD, the everlasting Father, the prince of peace.
In this verse Christ is identified explicitly as God.

In the NT Christ identifies Himself as deity many times. John 10:27-30 is one of the most powerful passages when he says, "I am the Father are one." This is not just one in unity, but one in essence. Why? Because the Jews took up stones to stone him. When Jesus asked the reason Why? They answered and said, "Because of blasphemy in that thou being a man makest thyself God." They knew what he meant.

Now what about the Holy Spirit? Look at the incident in Acts 5. First look at the background. In the last verse of chapter four, Baranabas, a rich man had land,, sold it, and gave ALL the profits to the apostles to be distributed to those who had need. Ananias and Sappira wanted to be like Barnabas and have the same reputation. Their scheme was to sell a plot of land that they owned bring a portion of the profits to the apostles, while keeping a portion for themselves, and lie, by saying we have given all. It was the hypocrisy, the lie, that got them in trouble.

Acts 5:1-2 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Verse 3 states that Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit.
Verse 4 states that Ananias lied to God.
The Holy Spirit is God.
He is one of the persons of the triune Godhead.

He is a person. You cannot lie to a force; an effervescent impermeable force.
He is a person, the third person of the triune Godhead--and these three are one--Father, Son and Holy Spirit, or Father, Word and Holy Spirit.
We find that the Scriptures identify all three as God.

As I mentioned before we find them all present at one place at one time at the baptism of Jesus. One doesn't take the place of the other. They are all present at the same time. They are not manifestations of each other as the Oneness people claim. They are three persons (not manifestations) co-equal with one another that make up one God.
"Hear O Israel there is one God. Yes, we believe that.
But there are three persons that make up that God, just as man has body soul and spirit. He is a tri-partite being. God is a trinity: three persons in one God.

 

[nunatak]

How do I "define Christian'?" Simple. I do not. I simply adopt how the Bible defines "Christian."

The term “Christian” is a Bible term from the New Testament-era. When it comes to rightly understanding a New Testament-era term, we cannot do so based on disputes from any time afterward. That includes church disputes from the earliest centuries afterward or from the 16th-20th centuries. I believe that we should go with Bible meanings for Bible terms.

Scripture uses “believers” (NASB) for those in Christ’s church in such places as Acts 2:47+5:14, Acts 10:45, 1 Thessalonians 1:7, and 1 Timothy 6:2; Scripture uses “disciples” (ESV) in the same way in such places as Galatians 1:13+Acts 9:1, Acts 14:20-2, and Acts 11:26. Acts 11:26 has “the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch” (NASB); the Greek word translated “disciples” is plural for “one who follows one’s teachings.”* A Christian is simply someone who believes on Jesus Christ so as to be a follower of His teachings.

It is not a popular definition. Many people want it to mean `person who agrees adequately with me.' However, the Bible teaches that definition, so it is true.

As for what Jesus Christ was talking about in Matthew 7:20-3, read the rest of His sermon in Matthew 5-7. It has been my observation that Oneness Pentecostals follow those teachings of Jesus Christ with no less zeal than Christians in other Christian groups.

____
*Vine, et al, Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary, page 171 NT.

An outsider of Oneness Pentecostalism might agree with much of what you say, however:

Most Oneness Pentecostals don't consider themselves Christian in the usual sense of the word. They typically consider themselves "Apostolic." The reason they hold to this term is that they subscribe to what they call "the apostle's teaching," meaning that they believe that salvation begins with the experience of Acts 2:38, repent, be baptized in Jesus name, and receive the Holy Ghost. They also say that baptism must be administered by a preacher, and that the infilling of the Holy Ghost is evidenced by speaking in tongues.

So, are Oneness Pentecostals "Christian," meaning do they believe and hold to the teachings of Christ?

Did Christ teach baptism only in Jesus' name? Did Christ teach that ALL must speak with tongues? Did Christ teach that we must live in accordance with "holiness standards" as dictated by the current direction of their doctrine? By this I mean that, for example, in the past, Oneness Pentecostals believed all usages of video was sin. They have recently changed their doctrine of video; it is not all sin anymore. Thus, their "holiness standards" have changed.

It is true that
1Co 12:3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit

However, it is also true that
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

 

[Darron Steele]

I have already pointed you to what Jesus Christ was referring to in Matthew 7:20-3. As I said, if you want to know, you need to read the rest of Jesus Christ's sermon in Matthew 5-7. Oneness Pentecostals follow those teachings with no less zeal than Christians in other church groups.

If you want to extract Matthew 7:21-3 from the sermon and make it into a passage saying that mistakes make people non-Christians, then no one is a Christian. Ephesians 4:25 says "speak ye truth each one with his neighbor" (ASV). Any time you made a mistake and told somebody something wrong in any subject, you did not do this. Now, because God wants us to do this, you failed to do His will. If mistakes make us into non-Christians, that would make every person a non-Christian. However, the Bible indicates that there are Christians.

As for the rest of your post, there is nothing in it that would get me to reject the Bible's definition of "Christian." As the Bible is the written Word of God, I will continue to adopt its definition.

If a person fits the Bible's definition of "Christian," then s/he is a Christian -- period.

 

[convicted1]

RE: "Oneness Pentecostals" Cult

I work in a hospital lab, and one of my co-workers states(over and over again) that you must be baptized in the name of Jesus. Now mind you, she said she was saved once, but isn't now(how can one become unsaved is beyond me). She said she was "Baptist-costal"; IOW, she went different places when she was in church. Now, I don't know if the pentecostal churches she went to were "oneness" or not......sounds like it, though. She also made the statement that she wasn't really saved, but wasn't really lost either......HUH?? I just kept my mouth shut when she said this, because she made this statement to a woman who is "charismatic" to the inth degree. The "charismatic" I make mention of claims to be a "preacher"(what about 1Tim ch. 3 and Titus chapter 1??), and that speaking in tongues is an "evidence" of the Holy Ghost(but she believes if one doesn't speak in tongues, you're still saved,its just that you speak in tongues when you get the baptism of the Holy Ghost). How can you not have the "evidence" of the Holy Ghost and be saved? I told her that when God saved my ever dying soul, I got the Baptism of the Holy Ghost the very instant I was saved. She said "no"! Neddless to say, I got miffed at that. I told her I knew what happened to me, and no one needs to tell me....or something along those lines...I was so mad(I can't remeber what exactly I said) because she was trying to tell me what I have or felt....NNE will say something like this to me and not get a response back...I KNOW what the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost did for me.

In 2000, I was doing my clinicals, and worked with a woman who was in an Apostolic(Sp?) Church of Christ. She didn't cut her hair, wear make-up, and she even wore scrub dresses to work. We didn't get into theology too much, because I was a sinner then. So, I don't know if she was of the "Jesus Only" set of Aposolics or not.

Now, getting to the Oneness movement :laugh: . I don't see any way around God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. DHK gave the best scripture about this, and it says "these Three ARE one", not "two", or "three", but "ARE ONE". Scripture also states that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh. So all three are one.

Willis

 

[Elk]

Dear DHK

Your message feels like a breath of fresh air...almost a kin to when I got saved as a teenager in the Agape Fellowship Baptist meeting at their church.
Thanks so kindly.

I mean although it sounds all overwhelming, it sings the love of God. Simple faith in One God.

 

[ajg1959]

How do I "define Christian'?" Simple. I do not. I simply adopt how the Bible defines "Christian."

The term “Christian” is a Bible term from the New Testament-era. When it comes to rightly understanding a New Testament-era term, we cannot do so based on disputes from any time afterward. That includes church disputes from the earliest centuries afterward or from the 16th-20th centuries. I believe that we should go with Bible meanings for Bible terms.

Scripture uses “believers” (NASB) for those in Christ’s church in such places as Acts 2:47+5:14, Acts 10:45, 1 Thessalonians 1:7, and 1 Timothy 6:2; Scripture uses “disciples” (ESV) in the same way in such places as Galatians 1:13+Acts 9:1, Acts 14:20-2, and Acts 11:26. Acts 11:26 has “the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch” (NASB); the Greek word translated “disciples” is plural for “one who follows one’s teachings.”* A Christian is simply someone who believes on Jesus Christ so as to be a follower of His teachings.

It is not a popular definition. Many people want it to mean `person who agrees adequately with me.' However, the Bible teaches the widely-unpopular definition, so regardless of popularity, it is true.

As for what Jesus Christ was talking about in Matthew 7:20-3, read the rest of His sermon in Matthew 5-7. It has been my observation that Oneness Pentecostals follow those teachings of Jesus Christ with no less zeal than Christians in other Christian groups.

____


Many people profess to be Christian, and most believe that Christ died to save our souls. But what does the word "follow" mean? Is it simply belief? Or is it commitment? Or does it mean sinless perfection?

If you ask the drunk passed out in the street he will most likely say that he believes in God and that Jesus died for our sins......and some of those drunks are indeed going to heaven. But most are lost. Many of our church members, deacons and even pastors will end up in hell....why? Because belief is not enough.

I believe that the Bible teaches a real trust in Jesus as our salvation. Trust in what? Trust that no matter what I do, I cant get to heaven on my own accord. And trust in the fact that only the Grace of God made possible by the sacrifice of the blood of Jesus will save me.

I believe that the biblical definition of "christian" is a person who not only believes, but has trusted in Jesus as their only avenue of forgiveness.

AJ

 

[Darron Steele]

How do I "define Christian'?" Simple. I do not. I simply adopt how the Bible defines "Christian."

The term “Christian” is a Bible term from the New Testament-era. When it comes to rightly understanding a New Testament-era term, we cannot do so based on disputes from any time afterward. That includes church disputes from the earliest centuries afterward or from the 16th-20th centuries. I believe that we should go with Bible meanings for Bible terms.

Scripture uses “believers” (NASB) for those in Christ’s church in such places as Acts 2:47+5:14, Acts 10:45, 1 Thessalonians 1:7, and 1 Timothy 6:2; Scripture uses “disciples” (ESV) in the same way in such places as Galatians 1:13+Acts 9:1, Acts 14:20-2, and Acts 11:26. Acts 11:26 has “the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch” (NASB); the Greek word translated “disciples” is plural for “one who follows one’s teachings.”* A Christian is simply someone who believes on Jesus Christ so as to be a follower of His teachings.

It is not a popular definition. Many people want it to mean `person who agrees adequately with me.' However, the Bible teaches the widely-unpopular definition, so regardless of popularity, it is true.

As for what Jesus Christ was talking about in Matthew 7:20-3, read the rest of His sermon in Matthew 5-7. It has been my observation that Oneness Pentecostals follow those teachings of Jesus Christ with no less zeal than Christians in other Christian groups.

____

Many people profess to be Christian, and most believe that Christ died to save our souls. But what does the word "follow" mean? Is it simply belief?

Not to be mean, but try looking it up in a dictionary.

I believe that the Bible teaches a real trust in Jesus as our salvation. Trust in what? Trust that no matter what I do, I cant get to heaven on my own accord. And trust in the fact that only the Grace of God made possible by the sacrifice of the blood of Jesus will save me.

I believe that the biblical definition of "christian" is a person who not only believes, but has trusted in Jesus as their only avenue of forgiveness.

AJ

Amen. As is, this is very compatible with the Bible's definition.

Jesus Christ taught that we are not good, and that we depend upon Him for salvation, and that He will see to the salvation of any Christian. Believing upon Jesus Christ so as to be a follower of His teachings will require believing this.

 

[ajg1959]

Not to be mean, but try looking it up in a dictionary.

Amen. As is, this is very compatible with the Bible's definition.

Jesus Christ taught that we are not good, and that we depend upon Him for salvation, and that He will see to the salvation of any Christian. Believing upon Jesus Christ so as to be a follower of His teachings will require believing this.

I am not being mean either, but, I couldnt care less how a secular dictionary defines the word "follow".

When Jesus told the apostles to "follow" Him, I doubt He was consulting Websters.

Many, many churches, even some Baptists, teach a false gospel, either excluding repentence, or including baptism, tongues, church sacraments, or health and wealth....but they all claim to "follow" Christ. I disagree with this claim. True followers of Christ adhere to the teachings of Christ and dont add or substract from the promise of salvation.

The Oneness crowd adds alot to the teachings of Christ.

AJ

 

[Darron Steele]

I am not being mean either, but, I couldnt care less how a secular dictionary defines the word "follow".

Well, the word is an English word which has meanings to English-speakers. Dictionaries simply report what the word means.

When translators translate the Bible, they choose appropriate English words that communicate the meanings of the ancient languages.

My ICB that I grew up with uses "follow" and "followers." It is a 3rd-grade reading level translation.

At your age, if you are not clear about a word 3rd-graders are expected to know, I do not know what else I can say. Unless you are in the process of learning English from another language, I do not know what else I could do. I am not trying to be insulting, but this looks like this area of education is outside my expertise.

...
The Oneness crowd adds alot to the teachings of Christ.

AJ

Right -- but to the best of their understandings and abilities, they follow the teachings of Christ that are known to exist.

Originally Posted by Darron Steele
How do I "define Christian'?" Simple. I do not. I simply adopt how the Bible defines "Christian."

The term “Christian” is a Bible term from the New Testament-era. When it comes to rightly understanding a New Testament-era term, we cannot do so based on disputes from any time afterward. That includes church disputes from the earliest centuries afterward or from the 16th-20th centuries. I believe that we should go with Bible meanings for Bible terms.

Scripture uses “believers” (NASB) for those in Christ’s church in such places as Acts 2:47+5:14, Acts 10:45, 1 Thessalonians 1:7, and 1 Timothy 6:2; Scripture uses “disciples” (ESV) in the same way in such places as Galatians 1:13+Acts 9:1, Acts 14:20-2, and Acts 11:26. Acts 11:26 has “the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch” (NASB); the Greek word translated “disciples” is plural for “one who follows one’s teachings.”* A Christian is simply someone who believes on Jesus Christ so as to be a follower of His teachings.

It is not a popular definition. Many people want it to mean `person who agrees adequately with me.' However, the Bible teaches that definition, so it is true.

As for what Jesus Christ was talking about in Matthew 7:20-3, read the rest of His sermon in Matthew 5-7. It has been my observation that Oneness Pentecostals follow those teachings of Jesus Christ with no less zeal than Christians in other Christian groups.

____
*Vine, et al, Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary, page 171 NT.

Jesus Christ indicated that Scripture cannot be wrong at John 10:35.

 

[ajg1959]

Well, the word is an English word which has meanings to English-speakers. Dictionaries simply report what the word means.

When translators translate the Bible, they choose appropriate English words that communicate the meanings of the ancient languages.

My ICB that I grew up with uses "follow" and "followers." It is a 3rd-grade reading level translation.

At your age, if you are not clear about a word 3rd-graders are expected to know, I do not know what else I can say. Unless you are in the process of learning English, I do not know what else I could do. That area of education is outside my expertise.

Right -- but to the best of their understandings and abilities, they follow the teachings of Christ that are known to exist.Jesus Christ indicated that Scripture cannot be wrong at John 10:35.

I'll use the word "believe" as another example.

It is clear that "believe" has different meanings when used in the New Testament. John 3:16 says that "whosoever believeth should not persish". Again, I use my example of the drunk in the street. Most "believeth" that Christ is Lord. But are they saved by simple 'belief'? It is obvious that the answer is no. So, the word believe as we know it, and the word believe as used in the New Testament is quite different.

So is the word "follow".

To "believe" in and to "follow" Christ suggests a more intimate and dedicated committment than the standard use of the words as defined by our 3rd grade dictionary.

I know of many lost people who are good folks, and by outside appearance, they "follow" they teachings of Christ. They are moral, loving, caring people, but they are lost. Their moral standards are equal to or surpass church going christians, and they "believe" in God.....but they are still lost.

AJ

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I guess it comes down to what, precisely is required for salvation.

I'm not entirely convinced that one's Trintiarian theology has to be perfect in order for the blood of Jesus to cover you.

GE:

Have you or are you now coming up FOR this dogma? What do you believe? And be assured it is what and WHOM you believe that saves or damns you. So one's Trintiarian theology tells it all wehter the blood of Jesus covers one's sins or no.

 

[DHK]

GE:

Have you or are you now coming up FOR this dogma? What do you believe? And be assured it is what and WHOM you believe that saves or damns you. So one's Trintiarian theology tells it all wehter the blood of Jesus covers one's sins or no.

GE,
Tragic is no longer here. All the posts prior to Elk's first post were posted in February of 2007 and before that time. It is an old thread that has been resurrected.

 

[DHK]

Your message feels like a breath of fresh air...almost a kin to when I got saved as a teenager in the Agape Fellowship Baptist meeting at their church.
Thanks so kindly.

I mean although it sounds all overwhelming, it sings the love of God. Simple faith in One God.

Praise the Lord that you are open to learning, and have learned. The concept of the trinity is difficult and many have stumbled because of it. We accept it by faith, because the Bible teaches it. Even after many years of being a Christian, I will never fully understand the trinity, but I believe it simply because the Bible teaches it. My faith is in Christ my Savior. He never fails me. He never fails anyone. God bless.

DHK

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Darron Steele post 102 refer,

Ignatius called the Old Testament prophets, Christians, and Hebrews 4 says the Gospel was preached to the Jews at the Exodus. So those who then believed God, were Christians in truth. It proves God has one revelation only: That through Jesus Christ, and that all believers according to the mystery of Godliness which is Jesus Christ, are the 'Christians' in the sight and estimation of God.

My brother used to say, he is not a Christian, yet he was. I think he was a Christian after all, because he thought he could not associated with how cheap the name of 'Christian' has been made by vain confessors.

 

[Marcia]

Do you believe that the Father is Spirit and that is all, Spirit?

DHK gave a good response to your message back on p 9 or 10. What you were writing is not biblical at all, whatever that link was you got it from. Why are you rejecting biblical truth for a bunch of undoctrinal teachings?

Yes, the Father is spirit. This is said in John 4. God is not made up of parts but is one being. In theology, it's called a simple being, "simple" not meaning basic or without intelligence.

Jesus did not have a body until he incarnated. Jesus is God but God the Father did not incarnate into a body.

If you study scripture you can see the Trinity, as those links I gave you show you. The links at the carm site especially are direct and helpful.

 

[Marcia]

Where this all started for me and why I am so messed up about the Trinity...it all started when a theologian who I highly regard (many years ago) told me that he believed that when he gets to Heaven, he will see Three Persons in Heaven.

This had done a number on my brain that just about did me in.

I did not know which Person to pray to. John 14:14 for one.

I was troubled for years, until I came to this place where God was waiting for me all along, was just pray and ask the Lord Jesus for Truth.

And this has been the road that I have been on...God has shown me so very much.

If God is not doing through this through the bible but through subjective feelings or something, I don't think it's God. God teaches through His word. Do you mean you are studying this through God's word?

And every single person has a slightly different view on the Trinity.

And I guess that is that way, because God is so Very Big and how can we relate or know...as God fills the universe and so soooooooooo much more we just can't imagine

It doesn't matter if people have different views on the Trinity. There is a consistent Trinitarian view in historical, biblical Christianity that goes back to the early church, based solidly on the Bible.

Just because we cannot totally comprehend God does not mean we cannot grasp the Trinity. We may not totally understand it - because we are not God and cannot totally understand God's nature -- but we can apprehend it enough to know it's true, and to defend it against anti-Trinitarian doctrines.

Have you read the Athanasian Creed that affirms the Trinity?
http://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html

 

[Marcia]

I think that when I wrote that back in 2007, I was trying to say that in general, the people who adopt Oneness Pentecostalism are Christians. I was giving my biggest reason why, while making clear that I believe they are wrong.

They are not espousing a Christian view. Modalism was declared a heresy back in the 3rd century when it was called Sabellianism.

I think Christians need to realize that Satan is always on the attack on the Bible and on sound doctrine. It is his modus operandi. The very first Christians were experiencing attack on doctrine -- look through the NT epistles - many if not most of them were written to counter false teachers infiltrating the church.

Oneness teaching is not just some innocent misunderstanding. They are teaching a different God. Think about what it means when the Trinity is denied - for one thing, it makes a liar out of Jesus in several places where he speaks to the Father and talks about the Father. It also undermines God's word.

Oneness is an attack on the very nature of God.

Some recent books have come out to re-energize the doctrine of the Trinity, which is falling into under-appreciation due to the lack of teaching on doctrine in churches these days.

The Holy Trinity: In Scripture, History, Theology And Worship by Robert Letham


The Forgotten Trinity by James White.

 

[Marcia]

If a person fits the Bible's definition of "Christian," then s/he is a Christian -- period.

They fit the definition if they hold to the teachings of the Bible; if not, they don't fit the definition. One of the ways that we know a false teacher is their false teachings. Oneness Pentecostals do not follow the bible's teaching on many things, including the nature of God and salvation.