Open Baptists & Paedobaptism

[AustinC]

Baptists. i don't like baby dedications, it seems like a modern invention. Theology within baptist church (and others) is terrible.

Am I wrong to assume you hold to dispensationalism?

 

[robycop3]

thats nonsense. if you take it that way then every time i go swimming im being Baptised, as i'm immersed in water.

No, not my nonsense, but YOUR IGNORANCE.

From Strongs Concordance for "baptize":

Greek "baptizo":

1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
   
   
2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
   
   
3. to overwhelm

It came into English C. 1300 & originally meant the same as the Greek, & was soon applied to the Christian rite as well as any immersion into water of anyone/anything.

Educate yourself a little before you call something nonsense.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Am I wrong to assume you hold to dispensationalism?

Try asking a dispensationalist if anyone in church history taught a pre-trib rapture before the 1830s. What did Jesus himself say about the tribulation?

Matthew 24:13
but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Historic premillennialists like John Piper teach that the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation.

 

[Mikey]

Am I wrong to assume you hold to dispensationalism?

No i'm not a dispensationalist. I am still studying and learning but I would be more in line with 1689 federalism.

Why do you think I was a dispensationalist? What about you?

 

[robycop3]

Well, to my knowledge, the thief on the cross was never baptized. He entered heaven because God said he could come.

To me, that's a main proof of the symbolism if baptism. Jesus didn't hesitate to save that man because He knew that man's heart & that he believed in Jesus, knowing full well he couldn't be baptized.

 

[Mikey]

No, not my nonsense, but YOUR IGNORANCE.

From Strongs Concordance for "baptize":

Greek "baptizo":

1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
   
   
2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
   
   
3. to overwhelm

It came into English C. 1300 & originally meant the same as the Greek, & was soon applied to the Christian rite as well as any immersion into water of anyone/anything.

Educate yourself a little before you call something nonsense.

it is nonsense. Scripture isn't saying that once you repent and believe go and have a bath. No baptism is much more than that, as i'm sure you agree. There is a specific purpose to be Baptised.

 

[Alan Gross]

Historically, Open Baptists were Baptist congregations in England that accepted for communion, as well as church membership, those who had been baptized as infants, without requiring them to be baptized again. If baptism is just an outward symbol of repentance, is it necessary for Baptist churches to require that new members be re-baptized?

Yes. Of course.

No one is considered 'baptized' unless they are doing it for the right reason; i.e., they are picturing what Christ has done for them.

Unbelievers can not claim to have been 'baptized', no matter how old they were.

 

[SavedByGrace]

hat person tried to tell me that, because I had to wait to be baptized for several months due to weather(Our church has no natatorium & baptizes in a creek) that I was not saved til then

what about the thief on the cross, who was never water baptized? Jesus promised him eternal life!

 

[SavedByGrace]

it is nonsense. Scripture isn't saying that once you repent and believe go and have a bath. No baptism is much more than that, as i'm sure you agree. There is a specific purpose to be Baptised.

Romans 6

3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Let's be honest. American Baptists today are some of the worst paedobaptists on the planet.

For example, how many Baptist churches are using silly means like fire trucks to entice kids into baptism, before they are even mature enough to repent and believe themselves?



How many of these kids will grow up with the false assurance that they can live like unbelievers the rest of their lives and still go to heaven because they got baptized in a fire truck at vacation Bible school?

Is anyone else concerned about this trend?

 

[tyndale1946]

Baptism of The Holy Spirit is the only thing that matters as related to eternal Salvation... If you are not regenerated before you are immersed in the baptismal water... As one of our preachers said it back in the day and I've said it before and I'll say it again... You go in a dry devil and come out a wet one... Brother Glen

 

[rlvaughn]

Let's be honest. American Baptists today are some of the worst paedobaptists on the planet.

For example, how many Baptist churches are using silly means like fire trucks to entice kids into baptism, before they are even mature enough to repent and believe themselves?

I agree. However, I think the proper response to this is to avoid it, preach against it, and try to root it out of our practice whenever possible. That is, as opposed to thinking, "Oh, well, Baptists are already practicing paedobaptism so what does it hurt to receive others who were baptized as infants."

Eventually some Baptists decide to jettison the pretense and go all the way to baptizing infants.
Infant baptism among Baptists

 

[rlvaughn]

Funny; I'm having a discussion with a "regenerational Baptist" on the CARM site. That person tried to tell me that, because I had to wait to be baptized for several months due to weather(Our church has no natatorium & baptizes in a creek) that I was not saved til then.

So by "regenerational Baptist" you are saying that you have run across someone on the CARM site who claims to be a Baptist and also believes a person is saved by baptism? I've heard tell that there are some of those, but have never run across one.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Honestly, dispensationalism has muddied this up and brought legalism into the church where it ought not to exist.

The position of NT immersion of Believers long predates the popularity of dispensationalism. Back in the day, I was taught in a Baptist Polity class by Dr. Richard Weeks at MBBC. He said:

Baptism is valid if it has these characteristics:

• Proper Meaning
• Proper Mode
• Proper Administrator

 

[AustinC]

Try asking a dispensationalist if anyone in church history taught a pre-trib rapture before the 1830s. What did Jesus himself say about the tribulation?



Historic premillennialists like John Piper teach that the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation.

Piper also understands and follows covenant theology. Are you saying you disagree with covenant theology in regards to the church being the chosen/elect people of God who recognize the covenant seal through baptism?

 

[Mikey]

Funny; I'm having a discussion with a "regenerational Baptist" on the CARM site. That person tried to tell me that, because I had to wait to be baptized for several months due to weather(Our church has no natatorium & baptizes in a creek) that I was not saved til then. I asked him when he acquired JESUS' authority to say when one was saved. I knew what I felt at the time & I was eager to be baptized, but had I died before I was baptized, I would've been just-as-saved as I am now.

Sounds like someone from the "Church of Christ" (restoration movement)

 

[AustinC]

No i'm not a dispensationalist. I am still studying and learning but I would be more in line with 1689 federalism.

Why do you think I was a dispensationalist? What about you?

I grew up in dispensationalism and have moved to covenant theology as I have studied scripture.

 

[Yeshua1]

Here's the rub. A person who is drawn to faith at any age, but was baptized as an infant can honestly say they have been baptized and they are a believer. Have they fulfilled the command to be baptized?

No as the prior one was not a valid Baptism!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, and that's traditionally the non-Baptist Reformed understanding of infant baptism, that baptism itself isn't regenerative, but instead that it symbolizes one's entrance into the covenant.

Can get tricky though, as some seem to see it as actually bringing them into Covenant with God, and only if they undo by disbelief gets undone!

 

[Yeshua1]

I grew up in dispensationalism and have moved to covenant theology as I have studied scripture.

Same here!