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Open View of Salvation vs. Predetermination
- Thread starter Baptist_Pastor/Theologian
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Brother Bob
New Member
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Never, but Joseph;
You made a bad mistake comparing John Calvin with God. Just admit it and let it go man.
I quoted more of that statement than I meant to. I was not comparing Calvin with God, but correcting your theological error that you never saw Jesus going around killing anyone.
Joseph Botwinick Joseph says Jesus is a murder!
Quote:
I am not justifying anything Calvin did when it comes to murder. I am correcting your theological error that Jesus never killed anyone in his righteous judgment. There is a difference, BTW, between what Calvin and others did in sin and what the sovereign God of the universe did in his righteous judgment.
Joseph Botwinick
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Joseph Botwinick's Blog
You gave me the approval to post it.
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
You don't mind if I quote you do you Joseph and James. Especially you Joe.:tear: :tear:
No problem. I am not ashamed of the truth.
Joseph Botwinick
__________________
Joseph Botwinick's Blog
I never lie, just read his posts above.
Never, but Joseph;
You made a bad mistake comparing John Calvin with God. Just admit it and let it go man.
I quoted more of that statement than I meant to. I was not comparing Calvin with God, but correcting your theological error that you never saw Jesus going around killing anyone.
Joseph Botwinick Joseph says Jesus is a murder!
Quote:
I am not justifying anything Calvin did when it comes to murder. I am correcting your theological error that Jesus never killed anyone in his righteous judgment. There is a difference, BTW, between what Calvin and others did in sin and what the sovereign God of the universe did in his righteous judgment.
Joseph Botwinick
__________________
Joseph Botwinick's Blog
You gave me the approval to post it.
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
You don't mind if I quote you do you Joseph and James. Especially you Joe.:tear: :tear:
No problem. I am not ashamed of the truth.
Joseph Botwinick
__________________
Joseph Botwinick's Blog
I never lie, just read his posts above.
Last edited by a moderator:
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Only problem is this is not a debate. A debate consists of two opposing POV's, who discuss their differences, and use their knowledge and ask questions to prove their POV's. Thus far, I have done that. Brother Bob hasn't. All he has proven is that he either is a liar or doesn't have a very good grasp on the difference between Calvin and God.
Joseph Botwinick
Joseph Botwinick
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Brother Bob,
Do you believe God is a murderer?
Joseph Botwinick
Do you believe God is a murderer?
Joseph Botwinick
Brother Bob
New Member
Not going to debate anyone who calls Jesus a Killer.Only problem is this is not a debate. A debate consists of two opposing POV's, who discuss their differences, and use their knowledge and ask questions to prove their POV's. Thus far, I have done that. Brother Bob hasn't. All he has proven is that he either is a liar or doesn't have a very good grasp on the difference between Calvin and God.
Joseph Botwinick
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Joseph Botwinick's Blog
Joseph, I've been wondering myself lately what the limits are for heterodoxy on BB. Seems as long as someone calls themself "Baptist" in their profile, their in, no matter if they're actually Wesleyans. AND I'M NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT YOU BRO BOB. But if the shoe fits...
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Brother Bob said:Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Never, but Joseph;
You made a bad mistake comparing John Calvin with God. Just admit it and let it go man.
I quoted more of that statement than I meant to. I was not comparing Calvin with God, but correcting your theological error that you never saw Jesus going around killing anyone.
Joseph Botwinick Joseph says Jesus is a murder!
Quote:
I am not justifying anything Calvin did when it comes to murder. I am correcting your theological error that Jesus never killed anyone in his righteous judgment. There is a difference, BTW, between what Calvin and others did in sin and what the sovereign God of the universe did in his righteous judgment.
Joseph Botwinick
__________________
Joseph Botwinick's Blog
You gave me the approval to post it.
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
You don't mind if I quote you do you Joseph and James. Especially you Joe.:tear: :tear:
No problem. I am not ashamed of the truth.
Joseph Botwinick
__________________
Joseph Botwinick's Blog
I never lie, just read his posts above.
You will note two things here:
1. Nowhere in this conversation have I said that God as a murderer.
and
2. In the post quoted above, I was showing the difference in the murderous ways of Calvin and others and the righteous, holy God who killed people in his sovereign judgment.
Joseph Botwinick
Brother Bob
New Member
You will note two things here:
1. Nowhere in this conversation have I said that God as a murderer.
and
2. In the post quoted above, I was showing the difference in the murderous ways of Calvin and others and the righteous, holy God who killed people in his sovereign judgment.
Joseph Botwinick__________________
Joseph Botwinick's Blog
He said Jesus, read it for yourself.
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Brother Bob said:He said Jesus, read it for yourself.
Yes I said Jesus. Jesus is God. I use the two interchangeably. Read it for yourself. Perhaps, Brother Bob has a problem with referring to Jesus as God?
Joseph Botwinick
Jarthur001
Active Member
Go back and read what Joe said. It went right over your head...again. He never said this...it was YOU bob. Joe asked...has God killed anyone. This is what he asked many times...and like always you twist is around.
Please do not close down this thread. Thanks.
Please do not close down this thread. Thanks.
Brother Bob
New Member
enough for me
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Brother Bob,
Do you believe God is a murderer? I don't. I think he was totally justified to kill all those Egyptians. Don't you?
Joseph Botwinick
Do you believe God is a murderer? I don't. I think he was totally justified to kill all those Egyptians. Don't you?
Joseph Botwinick
Brother Bob
New Member
You shut down the last one by saying Paul was preaching the Gospel to genitals.
Brother Bob
New Member
hmmm mmmmmJoseph, I've been wondering myself lately what the limits are for heterodoxy on BB. Seems as long as someone calls themself "Baptist" in their profile, their in, no matter if they're actually Wesleyans. AND I'M NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT YOU BRO BOB. But if the shoe fits...
Joseph_Botwinick said:You will note two things here:
1. Nowhere in this conversation have I said that God as a murderer.
and
2. In the post quoted above, I was showing the difference in the murderous ways of Calvin and others and the righteous, holy God who killed people in his sovereign judgment.
Joseph Botwinick
Most of us get what you are saying, Joseph. I'll state the extreme case:
God kills in righteous judgement, and it is obviously not a sin for Him to do so. Since Jesus is God, Jesus (in the flesh) could also have killed someone in righteous judgement without sinning. Jesus (in the flesh) didn't kill anyone as far as we know, but the point is valid.
J.D. said:How many chances do we have before God takes away the faith that we refuse to exercise? God takes THAT faith away, right? Or is that God witholds SAVING faith from them that do not exercise COMMON faith that every man has already?
I'm trying to understand your thinking. I've avoided you for a long time because I can't understand your thought process. And yes, I might be trying to "prove you wrong" too. It is a debate forum, after all.
But Bob, you didn't answer my question yet.
"How many chances do we have before God takes away the faith that we refuse to exercise? God takes THAT faith away, right? Or is that God witholds SAVING faith from them that do not exercise COMMON faith that every man has already?"
Joseph_Botwinick said:HMMMMMM? Did God ever kill anyone? Do you believe Jesus is God? Or do you, like many liberal theologians such as Spong and Borg discount the parts of the Bible that reveal the God of wrath because it doesn't make us feel good about him?
Joseph Botwinick
So I understand, is this the question ya'll are acusing Bro Bob of avoiding?
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
I believe that was the original question, yes.:smilewinkgrin:
Joseph Botwinick
Joseph Botwinick
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Joseph_Botwinick said:Please explain to me why he couldn't offer a perfect sacrifice if he, in his sovereign, holy, and righteous judgment killed someone. Of course he could. God is holy and just in all his judgments and we have no right to question his holiness, because we don't even come close.
Joseph Botwinick
Lebuick,
I am not, however, picky. If he didn't want to answer the original question, perhaps he could answer this one.
Joseph Botwinick
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