Opinions Please

[Wes Outwest]

Is he currently the pastor of YOUR church? or is he a candidate for that position? Or are you gossiping?

If the pastor of your church and you don't like him, LEAVE!

If a Candidate, don't vote for him!

If Gossiping, STOP IT IMMEDIATELY!

 

[TexasSky]

Wes,

I thought this was already explained.
The man is seeking the Pastorship of a church that has come to people of his home church asking certain people if they would recommnd him for the pastorate.

One of these people came to me and said, "You know what I know. What would you do?" My reaction was, "I'd recommend the other church pray, and talk to his family, and then step out of it."

However, after having said that, I'm kind of torn. The truth is, I would never, ever vote for that man to serve as a pastor of a chuch I worshipped in, but I knew that if I said that it could damage the man and people would ask why I felt that way. I didn't want to be the one to keep him out of a pastorate, even though, my heart tells me he shouldn't be in one.

I think if I was guilty of gossip I would have said, "Oh, well, you know, you really should tell them all about the problems with his kids, and by the way, did you know this happened to?" I didn't do that.

On this board, I have gone out of my way not to reveal anything except the facts, so that they would NOT harm the man or his family.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by TexasSky:
A man is a pastor.
His children are grown now.
His children make remarks like, "I never knew why my Dad didn't love me."
His children are afraid of him.
The spouses of the children are afraid of him.
His wife is afraid to disagree with him.
His children all went through periods in their life of alcoholism, sexual promiscuity, or even run-ins-with-law, but when they moved away from him, they all settled down into Christian living.

Am I being judgemental to have serious doubts about the man's ability to lead a church?

I pastored a chruch where some of the people were brutal on my wife and daughter as well as me. The first year we were there my daughter got all the highest awards in the public school. That same year as a fourth grader she won the spelling bee for grades 1-8. From time to time we would hear snide remarks made by some in the church. One of the deacons who had some drug troubles with three of the four of his children made the comment to me one day, "Your family is just too nice."

Sometimes there can be a few people who can make a pastor's life miserable. If the pastor does not know much about hell he will when they get done. It will challenge his theology about demon possession.

Are you sure that the problem is not with the pastor's wife or kids? A wife can ruin a man's ministry and his children by her attitude toward her husband's calling.

The best judge of a person's ability to lead is another leader. I once pastored a church where one of the deacons seldom had a nice word to say and always had a better way to lead until I put him in charge of some things. Every time he was a failure and never followed through on one thing. Before I did that though I let him preach one time when I was going to be gone for three weeks. That meant six different sermons and 8 different services in two weeks. When I returned the people were glad ot see me. I got an earful about that deacon. He lost a lot of credibility. But he still continued to badger me. But he wasn't so eager to preach again.

1 Sam 2:22, "Now Eli was very old; and he heard all that his sons were doing to all Israel, and how they lay with the women who served at the doorway of the tent of meeting."

 

[Rachel]

QUOTE]This sounds like a typical right-wing preacher to me. [/QB][/QUOTE]


What a dumb remark.

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Originally posted by Rachel:
What a dumb remark.

Only someone who is truly dumb would not understand that I posted what I did in fun.

Actually, I have known several very good pastors who I have the greatest respect for.

I have, however, also know some real scoundrels. Take for instance the youth pastor who ran off with another woman and left his poor wife with five children to support, the youngest which was only a few months old. This did wonders for my son's view of church since he was a teenager and was extremely close to this man.

Or, take another youth pastor at the next church we attended who molested a teenager about my son's age and finally pleaded guilty to the charges.

Or maybe the assistant pastor who split another baptist church we attended who not only took half the congregation with him but who is, possibly, the laziest preacher I have ever met. I'll stop here, but could continue to tell you of others who use the ministry as a easy ride through life because they are not able to work a real job.

BTW, I do not doubt that the pastors who post here are fine upstanding men of God who do a difficult job, often for little money or recognition.

 

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Terry_Herrington:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Rachel:
What a dumb remark.

Only someone who is truly dumb would not understand that I posted what I did in fun.

Actually, I have known several very good pastors who I have the greatest respect for.

I have, however, also know some real scoundrels. Take for instance the youth pastor who ran off with another woman and left his poor wife with five children to support, the youngest which was only a few months old. This did wonders for my son's view of church since he was a teenager and was extremely close to this man.

Or, take another youth pastor at the next church we attended who molested a teenager about my son's age and finally pleaded guilty to the charges.

Or maybe the assistant pastor who split another baptist church we attended who not only took half the congregation with him but who is, possibly, the laziest preacher I have ever met. I'll stop here, but could continue to tell you of others who use the ministry as a easy ride through life because they are not able to work a real job.

BTW, I do not doubt that the pastors who post here are fine upstanding men of God who do a difficult job, often for little money or recognition. </font>[/QUOTE]Nice...I didn't call you dumb just your remark. Since I don't know you or pay attention to what you post, it looked like you meant what you said. Whatever.
We have all known wolves in sheeps clothing, they're everywhere.

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Originally posted by Rachel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Terry_Herrington:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Rachel:
What a dumb remark.

Only someone who is truly dumb would not understand that I posted what I did in fun.

Actually, I have known several very good pastors who I have the greatest respect for.

I have, however, also know some real scoundrels. Take for instance the youth pastor who ran off with another woman and left his poor wife with five children to support, the youngest which was only a few months old. This did wonders for my son's view of church since he was a teenager and was extremely close to this man.

Or, take another youth pastor at the next church we attended who molested a teenager about my son's age and finally pleaded guilty to the charges.

Or maybe the assistant pastor who split another baptist church we attended who not only took half the congregation with him but who is, possibly, the laziest preacher I have ever met. I'll stop here, but could continue to tell you of others who use the ministry as a easy ride through life because they are not able to work a real job.

BTW, I do not doubt that the pastors who post here are fine upstanding men of God who do a difficult job, often for little money or recognition. </font>[/QUOTE]Nice...I didn't call you dumb just your remark. Since I don't know you or pay attention to what you post, it looked like you meant what you said. Whatever.
We have all known wolves in sheep's clothing, they're everywhere. </font>[/QUOTE]I did not mean to say that you are dumb, I was only turning your remark back on you. It was an oversight; I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

Since you have implied that I am a wolf in sheep's clothing, please pray that I will become a sheep in God's pasture.

 

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Terry_Herrington:

Since you have implied that I am a wolf in sheep's clothing, please pray that I will become a sheep in God's pasture. [/QB]

Good grief, that is not what I was saying Terry! I don't know you at all! Like I said I haven't read much of your posts that I know of.
I was talking about those Pastor's you had mentioned in your post that did those terrible things.

Rachel

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Rachael, it has been a long day. I am sorry for any and all misunderstandings. Let me please leave it at that. God bless you.

Also, I did not mean to offend any pastor or preachers who post here.

 

[Rachel]

I'm sorry too Terry for any misunderstandings here! No hard feelings. I didn't think you meant to offend any pastors here either.

God Bless you!
Rachel

 

[Insane Zamboni]

To answer TexasSky's original question, yes it appears you're being judgmental. Try praying for the guy!

 

[DeaconLew]

1Ti 3:1 ¶ This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

You are not being judgmental, IMO. Nor do I think you are gossiping. The Pastorite is a public office and subject to public scrutiny. All things need to be done decent and in order, never the less a position of this magnitude needs to be given all the gravity that it deserves. Look at the man's life. If his children are a wreck, then the congregation may be headed for trouble, since this is what God has said to look at as a prerequisite. My two bits. What say ye?

-DeaconLew

 

[Jeffrey H]

A man is a pastor.
His children are grown now.
His children make remarks like, "I never knew why my Dad didn't love me."
His children are afraid of him.
The spouses of the children are afraid of him.
His wife is afraid to disagree with him.
His children all went through periods in their life of alcoholism, sexual promiscuity, or even run-ins-with-law, but when they moved away from him, they all settled down into Christian living.

Am I being judgemental to have serious doubts about the man's ability to lead a church?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This sounds like something many Pastors have experienced through no real fault of their own. Rebellious children are not uncommon to those called to be pastors and preachers.

It's interesting that the children all settled down to "Christian Living". This indicates to me that "Daddy" did something right.

 

[TexasSky]

The "fear factor," especially since it extends beyond the kids to the wife and inlaws worries me.

I also find it fascinating that they settled down - after they wrote their father out of their life.

 

[BillyMac]

Originally posted by BillyMac:
I don't think it's gossip. Gossip would have a name and a face on it or at the very least a location. None of these things exist here.

 

[jdcanady]

We should not even consider accusations against an elder (pastor) without at least two witnesses. TexasSky, you are one, only if you have direct knowledge of what went on. This is something that is the responsibility of the local church.

Now lets dig a little dirt on Franklin Graham. Sounds like a bunch of gossip mongers to me. Shame, Shame, Shame!!!

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by jdcanady:
.........Now lets dig a little dirt on Franklin Graham. Sounds like a bunch of gossip mongers to me. Shame, Shame, Shame!!!

Unlike many members of the BB, I admire Franklin Graham and the Graham family.
But since Franklin Graham wrote Rebel With a Cause and Ruth Bell Graham wrote Prodigals: And Those Who Love Them, I'm not sure a passing reference by Diane to what the Graham family has made well known is gossip.

Karen

 

[jdcanady]

Karen

Did not TexasSky say "tell me more about Franklin Graham", meaning all the "dirt" that reminded Diane of the current Pastor to whom the gossip is about?

Maybe the kids of this pastor were driven into rebellion by all the gossip mongers in their church that hounded the family day and night looking for something to gossip about!

For TexasSky to just assume they cleaned up their lives because they "wrote their father out of their lives" is just more gossip. How about they cleaned up their lives when they were radically saved by the power of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God which their father had preached to them.

"The 'fear-factor' worries me" Just more gossip!

Repent and mind your own business!!

 

[TexasSky]

JD,

I just saw this and frankly. You owe me an apology for accusing me of spreading gossip about the man. I bent over backwards NOT to spread gossip. I didn't say, "Don't recommend him - he did this and this and this. NOR was I the only witness. The FIRST witness came to me and said, "I've been asked to recommend this man, what should I do? You know what I know." To which I said, "Pray about it, and maybe learn more about the situation before you respond."

How is that answer ruining his career, spreading gossip, etc?

As to Franklin Graham - Someone indicated that Franklin Graham is an example of the son of a Godly Minister going wild. Since all I've ever known about Frankling Graham is that he is a good Christian Minister himself, the statement made me ask why Graham was used as an example. I don't feel Diane was "gossiping" when she brought Graham up, nor was I asking her to gossip when I asked her to explain what she meant. I know that I didn't defame his name with my response because all I stated was that I knew he was grown before he accepted Christ. That's common knowledge that Franklin uses as part of his ministry.

 

[jdcanady]

TexasSky:

Here are the things you have said about a man who is a pastor (not your pastor).

“His children make remarks like, "I never knew why my Dad didn't love me."
His children are afraid of him.” The spouses of the children are afraid of him. His wife is afraid to disagree with him.”

If his children, their spouses, or his wife told you any of this, your passing it on to anyone (according to Matt 18) is gossip. You should have advised them to initiate church discipline on the man, and pray for restoration. If you witnessed the behavior yourself, you should have initiated church discipline on the man (according to Matt 18) To pass the information on to anyone else is gossip.

You said:

“His children all went through periods in their life of alcoholism, sexual promiscuity, or even run-ins-with-law, but when they moved away from him, they all settled down into Christian living.”

This is an observation on your part that makes assumptions and is pure gossip.

“Am I being judgemental to have serious doubts about the man's ability to lead a church?”

Whether you are judgmental or not, I don’t know. You are being a busybody and a gossip.

“My church is not directly involved in the issue. Someone who is was asked for their opinion on the man, and they knew that I knew what they knew.”

How did they know? Have you been talking (gossiping) to them about the pastor before?

“The statments regarding the issues that have taken place within the man's family came directly from the individuals in the family who were involved”

Repeating that information is gossip.

“We haven't told anyone, "Oh, well, you know, his oldest daughter got pregnant when she was 17, and his youngest son got a girl pregnant and refused to marry her, and his oldest son was only married for six months before his wife said she couldn't live with someone like him, and two daughters and two sons all drank until they moved away from home."

You didn’t tell anyone but 12,000 people on this board. Just because you didn’t “name names” does not negate the fact that you are gossiping about this man and his family.

“Though all of those things are facts, they were not related to anyone.”

Apparently they were repeated to someone, or else how would “they know that I know what they know”, which is a bunch of gossip.

“The truth is, I would never, ever vote for that man to serve as a pastor of a chuch I worshipped in, but I knew that if I said that it could damage the man and people would ask why I felt that way. I didn't want to be the one to keep him out of a pastorate, even though, my heart tells me he shouldn't be in one.”

If you felt this strongly, you should have approached him directly and initiated church discipline.

Does your heart tell you anything about repenting for all this gossip?