Opinions Please

[TexasSky]

JD -

Let me see if I can put this in terms you can understand.

For it to be gossip, it would have had to have met certain requirements that I was very careful for it NOT to include.

1) It would have required a desire to spread the story for the sensationalism of it.
Fact: I asked for opinions on how to deal with an issue, I offered explanation for what was going on and stopped there. I did not go into depth of what I have observed, seen or been told. I told as little as I could to explain why I was asking to begin with.

2) It would have required some way for people to blame the party being spoken of.
I went to great lengths NOT to identify the person in any way. You have no idea where he lives, where he used to live, what church he used to attend, how many children he has. In short, you know absolutely NOTHING about the man, other than, I was asked if I would recommend him, and that I have questions on whether or not I SHOULD have shared the negative things I knew, and the fact that I did NOT share the negative things I knew with people who could use it to harm him.

Now - had you actually READ what I wrote, you would understand that I do NOT have the authority to vote on the man. He is no longer even a member of my church.

Are you suggesting that I get on a plane, fly to where he currently lives and say, "Hey, look, people want me to give you a letter of recommendation, but I can't because I think you suck as a husband and a father?"

What I did was tell the people asking about recommendations to pray and do further interviews with his family.

What I have learned is that some people try to see sin in everything and everyone.

Since you feel so strongly that people should go to one another, one on one, when it comes to "correcting fellow Christians," let me tell you, I feel your behavior is very unChristian.

You did not come to me, one and one, via pm or note and say, "Sky, I really don't think this belong on a board."

You twisted facts to make a simple, "what should I have done question," into "gossip mongering to destroy a man," and insulted me on a public board.

Frankly - that kind of thing is exactly what I believe Christ was constantly criticizing publicans, pharasees and saducees for.

 

[jdcanady]

TexasSky

Since you are obviously blind to this particular sin in your life, let me respond to what you have said. Let me assure you, I read what you posted. By the way, you have misquoted me. I never said you were trying to destroy anyone.

You said:

"For it to be gossip, it would have had to have met certain requirements that I was very careful for it NOT to include."

Please show me a scripture reference for your defintion of gossip.

You said:

"I went to great lengths NOT to identify the person in any way."

From what you have said, I know this man is a pastor currently being considered for a pastorate. He has 4 grown children who were drunks (according to you) while they lived in his house, but all have moved out. According to you, He has both a daughter and a son with illegitimate children (unless they got abortions). He has at least one son who has been divorced. His wife and his children fear him, and his children's spouses fear him (according to you).

For someone who went out of her way not to give any information about the family, or to go into depth about his life, or indulge in sensationalism, you, frankly, did a lousy job.

You said:

"Are you suggesting that I get on a plane, fly to where he currently lives and say, "Hey, look, people want me to give you a letter of recommendation, but I can't because I think you suck as a husband and a father?"

It seems your story is changing. I thought you said "people" from the church he used to pastor had been asked to give a reference, and they asked you what they should do, given you had so much knowledge of his problems. Maybe I misunderstood.

I am suggesting you should recognize you are gossipping about a man and his family. If you have something against someone, go to him in person and address it. If you had that opportunity at some time in the past, and didn't do it, then you have not followed scripture. If someone comes to you and says "I know that you know what I know" then you should repent because gossipping has been going on.

Public sin, at times, requires a public rebuke. You deserve to be publicly called to account for the public gossipping you have done concerning this man and his family. It is unseemly, and no amount of rationalizing is going to change the truth here.

In Christian love, I implore you, Repent and quit gossipping!

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
Look at the life lived by Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham.

My reason for bringing up Franklin Graham who is being greatly used by God and who does not hide his past but uses it as a means of testimony was to reply to this:

His children all went through periods in their life of alcoholism, sexual promiscuity, or even run-ins-with-law, but when they moved away from him, they all settled down into Christian living.

MANY pastors have children who went through times of rebellion before turning back to the Lord.

Since I meant no harm and Franklin Graham has openly shared his times away from the Lord, this cannot be construed as gossip except by someone who is searching for the mote or speck.

Matt. 7:3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by TexasSky:
Are you suggesting that I get on a plane, fly to where he currently lives and say, "Hey, look, people want me to give you a letter of recommendation, but I can't because I think you suck as a husband and a father?"

Personally, if I were that pastor, I would prefer that you actually come to me and talk about it, or maybe send me an e-mail instead of bad mouthing me behind my back. At least, that way, I might even have a chance to give you my side of the story or defend myself against the charges. Tell me this: Have you ever confronted the pastor one on one in Christian love and discussed these things with him? Personally, if you have not, I don't think you should be talking about it to complete strangers (over 11,000 of them worldwide). If you are not at least willing to hear both sides of the story, then I think you should probably just stay out of it.

Just my opinion,

Joseph Botwinick

 

[emeraldctyangel]

Is this a place to throw stones? I have none because as I understand it, I am not allowed to cast any because I am not without sins myself.

Yes I am new here, but not to message boards that ask expressly for "OPINIONS PLEASE". Typically these type of boards are used for getting a temperature reading on something, not for spreading gossip. God gave us all free will and some people choose to use it to point out faults instead of helping another understand something. Waste of God given talents.

My opinion on this matter is that if the family members are skeptical, then as a moral leader, there is reason to question. If you are making your family fearful and run your home with an iron fist, isnt it possible that you are misinterpreting God's word?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Angel,

1. Have you at any point in this thread heard the pastor's side of the story?

2. Do you know anything more about this family other than what you have been told by a second hand source?

3. I am thinking you just threw a few stones at the pastor without even hearing both sides of the story.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[TexasSky]

Again,

I did not bad mouth him to anyone. I told people who asked for my opinion to pray and talk to him and talk to his family.

 

[Rachel]

TexasSky,

Try not to let the Pharisees bother you. Ignore them if you can.

Matt. 22:15-22

God Bless,
Rachel

 

[jdcanady]

To Dianetavegia

I apologize to you. You weren't gossipping. I should have been clear that my response was directed to TexasSky and her "tell me more about Franklin Graham" comment.

 

[jdcanady]

Rachel

It is a good thing Peter didn't have you around when Paul confronted him about his sin. "Oh, don't let that pharisee bother you, Peter, he's just throwing stones and not showing brotherly love. Just ignore him."

If TexasSky cannot see this for what it is, gossip, then she will never repent and be forgiven.

The most loving thing you could do would be to urge her to repent and quit gossipping about this man.

 

[TexasSky]

JD, I say this with Christian love, the only one I see throwing stones is you.

I had absolutely no malicious intentions at all when I asked if I did the right thing by not listing the man's sins, and I had absolutely no malicoius intentions or any intention of spreading evil rumors about Franklin Graham when I asked what Diane meant. She mentioned him, I asked her to explain why she felt he applied to this situation. End of it, until you made it more.

And you didn't conduct yourself in a biblical fashion. You didn't try to come in private, nor did you come in love to uplift. You came with the intention of tearing down, and Christians should never speak with the intent of tearing down other Christians.

Lastly, I answer to God, JD. When you first made your verbal attack, I prayed about it, and the results were peace in my heart, the question "what WAS your intention," and the knowledge that I had actually tired not to bad-mouth anyone, and several PM's telling me they knew you were wrong.

So, I'm at peace with God. I hope my being at peace with God doesn't bother you too much.

 

[jdcanady]

TexasSky

I have never assumed that I know your motivations for posting all this gossip about this man and his family. I have not accused you of spreading evil rumors. I am stating clearly that what you have done is gossip. You could not resist giving the unseemly details.

You could have had a generic discussion about how a pastor's relationship with his family affects his qualifications for ministry and what is the responsibility of his former church in making negative information available to a prospective church.

If you cannot see the difference between this approach, and what you have done with this post, then I stand by my statement that you are blind to this particular sin in your life.

I have not attacked you verbally. I am not motivated by "trying to tear you down." I am motivated by Christian love which requires me to confront you with the truth of your sin and hope the Holy Spirit convicts you of your sin, so that you will repent of your sin and be forgiven.

If people are telling you that you haven't sinned by gossipping, then they are not doing you any favors.

I will say again, there are times when public sin needs to be rebuked in public so that the effects of that sin are lessoned for those envolved. Had Paul not confronted Peter publicly, many who were present might have retained a misunderstanding of what is appropriate. Unless you are rebuked in public, many people who have read this post could get the idea that your behavior is appropriate Christian conduct.

 

[following-Him]

Referring to the OP, I would like to say that I think that you are being judgemental, or why would you post what you did?

If your OP is not gossip, then why post it at all?

Given the information divulged in your OP, please explain to me in what way God is glorified and people edified by it?

All your OP seems to have done is cause conflict and bring into question your own integrity.

Maybe some here would find this devotion from Word for Today for the 17th June helpful: It can be found at www.ucb.co.uk and click on word of today:

Can you keep a confidence? 17 Jun 2005
'...SOMEONE OF INTEGRITY WILL NOT VIOLATE A CONFIDENCE.' PROVERBS 11:13
It is no big surprise when people gossip at the hair dressers, the pub or the workplace. But how about the church? Do you think it does not happen? Think again! The reason it is not so obvious there is because we are experts at disguising it. For example, a friend confides in you about a marital problem or their child's drug addiction, and what do you do? Immediately you get on the phone and notify the prayer chain. You 'share it' under the guise of asking for prayer.

God says, 'Someone of integrity will not violate a confidence.' They simply will not! Gossip destroys reputations and severs friendships. Worst of all, it keeps people from opening up and getting the help they need. That is why God categorises it along with murder (Romans 1:29 KJV). If you think that sounds extreme read this: 'The words of a talebearer are as wounds...they go down into the innermost parts...' (Proverbs 18:8 KJV). Thoughtless words break hearts!

So why does God come down so hard on this? Because it says to the world His people cannot be trusted; that somebody with a problem is safer in a self help group than church. Sadly some of the worst offenders are Christian leaders with loose tongues who seek to impress their peers by divulging the details of somebody else's struggles. Shame on us! We need to pray, 'Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord...' (Psalm 19:14 KJV). So, can you keep a confidence? Prove it!

Followinghim

 

[jdcanady]

Very well said. Amen

 

[OCC]

I don't see the pastor's name anywhere in the OP. Therefore it is not gossip. Come on people...more information than is contained in the OP ends up in the NEWS! Lighten up on the lady.

 

[jdcanady]

King James

I don't understand why you think a person's name has to be given in order for it to be gossip. Please explain your reasoning.

And what ends up on the news is not the same as what ends up on a Christian debate board.

 

[TexasSky]

Thank you King James.

 

[TexasSky]

Following him,

I posted it because I really felt guilty about not telling my friend to tell the search committee what they knew. I came to what I thought was a Christian community, so I could ask for Christian advice anonymously. If this community had indicated to me that the committee had a right to know, I would have gone back and said, "Be totally honest."

Some Christians helped me. They encouraged me to give the Pastor the benefit of the doubt, which is what I tried to do when I recommended to my friend that they pray about it further, and maybe investigate further.

Others just attacked me personally for asking the questions to begin with.

So, now I know. This board is not a place for a Christian to come to for advice. Message well received. Its okay to talk about Michael Jackson, a man hitting the kid sleeping with his daughter, Reverend Billy Graham, but NOT okay to ask, "Should I tell them what I know if this is what I know." I got it. Don't ask, don't tell, unless its about someone famous and its juicy.

 

[jdcanady]

As I have pointed out before, you did not have to give personal, intimate, scandalous details about this man and his family. To do so is gossip.

I have repeated told you how you could have asked the questions, without giving the personal information. You could have asked how a pastor's relationship with his family affects his qualifications, and what is the responsibility (if any) of a church to pass on negative information.

Once again, I urge you in Christian love to see this gossip for what it is, repent and stop gossipping.

 

[Rachel]

TS has repeatedly explained about this. This is so ridiculous. I'm glad I'm not the only one here that doesn't see what she said as gossip.

What's funny is people here can go around making all kinds of snide remarks about overweight people, naming names of people they deal with while saying something mean about them, making sly comments about someone they have personal info on, etc. etc. I look around and don't see anyone saying anything about those posts.

Mmmm Did I say that was funny? No it's pathetic and very sad!