OSAS? (An example)

[Frogman]

Originally posted by tyndale1946:
I have one question for you Frogman... Is the born again child of God still in his Total Depravity as he lives in the world?... Brother Glen

Why do you ask me the hard questions????

I would answer No, not in total depravity, but still inclined toward depravity's pleasures.

Bro. Dallas, the hardshaller flower child

Resting in JESUS

 

[Yelsew]

Frogman,

If according to "Total Depravity" there is no good in us, why does God demand that we do good? Doesn't God not know that we cannot do that which is not in us?

Why does he Command us to:
"Love the Lord, Thy God, with all thine heart, etc.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

Why does Jesus say, speaking to the multitudes of essentially "totally depraved" unbelievers who are hearing for the first time, "Blessed are the peacemakers", "Blessed are meek and lowly", etc.

No Sir, that "Total Depravity" doctrine that you hold so dear to is a krok! It is false doctrine!

Yes, man did, and does sin of his own free will, and sin separates man from God as a form of bondage, but man is not totally depraved. Man has exactly what God created man to have in the way of abilities and capabilities, man just don't know it until he comes to believe in God, by hearing the truth from God's Holy Word. It is the truth that sets man free.

 

[Frogman]

Yelsew,

Why do you think Christ died once only?

Bro. Dallas

 

[tyndale1946]

Originally posted by Frogman:

Why do you ask me the hard questions????

I would answer No, not in total depravity, but still inclined toward depravity's pleasures.

I ask you the hard questions because I like you ... Interesting answer... Here's another one to slap on to it... If we are not Totally Depraved then why does the fleshly man die?... We know the Spirit that is born of God NEVER dies but that Spirit not born of God is still Totally Depraved!... Brother Glen

 

[Frogman]

I would say that prior to been regenerated we are Totally Depraved in that we are depraved in body, soul and spirit. Once we are quickened we possess the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and are then still depraved in the flesh, yet our spirit's condition has changed as a result of the presence of the Holy Spirit. So then I would maintain we are not now totally depraved. Although I do concede there are strong tendencies remaining that we follow the lusts of the flesh. The difference is now, as believers at least, we have knowledge of the truth and should strive to add to our faith, virtue, knowledge, etc.

Though at the same time I can see the point of your question and it is a very good one. The flesh is dead because of sin, it is the spirit of man that is eternal and it is the spirit which is quickened the flesh profits nothing.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

Originally posted by Frogman:
Yelsew,

Why do you think Christ died once only?

Bro. Dallas

Quite simply ONCE IS ENOUGH!, but to take it further, scriptures say that "it is appointed unto man, once to die..."

 

[tyndale1946]

Explain two terminologies... Are Born Again and Quickened the same thing?... Brother Glen

 

[Yelsew]

Originally posted by tyndale1946:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Frogman:

Why do you ask me the hard questions????

I would answer No, not in total depravity, but still inclined toward depravity's pleasures.

I ask you the hard questions because I like you ... Interesting answer... Here's another one to slap on to it... If we are not Totally Depraved then why does the fleshly man die?... We know the Spirit that is born of God NEVER dies but that Spirit not born of God is still Totally Depraved!... Brother Glen

</font>[/QUOTE]Yet when every man dies once, the spirit of every man departs the flesh to be handed over to Jesus in eternal life and not judged, or to be judged and cast into the lake of fire for the second death.

 

[Frogman]

Originally posted by tyndale1946:
Explain two terminologies... Are Born Again and Quickened the same thing?... Brother Glen

Is this for me?

I would say that these are the same things. But in saying that I can see a possible difference among them.

That difference is that Jesus said 'except a man be born again' he cannot see the kingdom of God. Specifically: John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

'born again' is "from above" so this is why I make that phrase the same as quickened.

I believe it to be more correct.

Now further discussion may lead us to attempt to decide what is the kingdom of God; This definition may lead some to believe that quickening is a knowledge of eternal life by Grace while being born again is realizing they are not in obedience to God therefore out of fellowship.

Yet, IMHO, I think the Greek supports that these two are the same ideas.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Frogman]

Judgment is the pronouncement of eternal condtions.

Judgment is not ours to speculate upon because there is only one who judges righteously.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Frogman]

Yelsew, this is a response to your post at the top of page 3.

First of all Jesus did not die in sin. He did not commit sin and could not have committed sin had he lived in this world until the last day.

Second of all Romans 8 teaches clearly that Christ died not only for the elect, but also for the creation, that they too shall be delivered from this present sinful world.

Were no human elected, this would be enough reason for Christ to have fulfilled his covenant of works with the Father.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

The fact is, that as a man, Jesus died for the sins of the world. He was the spotless sacrificial Lamb of God, slain from the foundation of the world. That was his destiny! He has now been Judged and deemed WORTHY, the only worthy man, See Revelations. Therefore His atonement for sins of the world is sufficient for ALL mankind, and there will never be another similar sacrifice for sin. The rest is up to us to believe or reject.

 

[Frogman]

That is an opinion Yelsew not a fact. What we are dealing with is not an intellectual ability to believe in Jesus, but that which is spiritually discerned, carnal man has not spiritual discernment.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

Originally posted by Frogman:
That is an opinion Yelsew not a fact. What we are dealing with is not an intellectual ability to believe in Jesus, but that which is spiritually discerned, carnal man has not spiritual discernment.

Bro. Dallas

And what do you base your opinion of where the information I post comes from?

I can tell you that it comes from the Spirit of God who indwells my spirit, and it derived from the Holy Scriptures.

 

[Frogman]

I do not doubt that you are saved Yelsew. No other would spend so much time in study and discussion. But I am not in a position to know your heart, nor you mine. I receive your testimony as an equal to my own. That is that God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into you and therefore your spirit cries out Abba. But this occurs for no other reason than that the Father has initiated it. Having initiated it then it is He who keeps it and not you nor I. This is permeated throughout the scripture.

God Bless Brother.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

Originally posted by Frogman:
I do not doubt that you are saved Yelsew. No other would spend so much time in study and discussion. But I am not in a position to know your heart, nor you mine. I receive your testimony as an equal to my own. That is that God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into you and therefore your spirit cries out Abba. But this occurs for no other reason than that the Father has initiated it. Having initiated it then it is He who keeps it and not you nor I. This is permeated throughout the scripture.

God Bless Brother.

Bro. Dallas

That did not answer my question to you about your basis of opinion concerning my discernment of the the truth of scripture.

 

[Frogman]

Then I guess it is by the basis of my discernment also by the Holy Spirit, so then we have succinctly proclaimed God the author of Confusion.

Brother, you have to know that perfect love knows no fear, perfect love is accomplished through Christ alone and is a peace such that the believer knows he/she is wholly reconciled to God. If there remains a fear of being able to fall away unto condemnation, then what you have is less than perfect love and very little peace.

What you are attempting is an intellectual approach to things discerned by the Spirit. This is possible to those who are quickened but not to those yet lost.

Does any of that remotely answer your question? All I see in your question is a claim of spiritual discernment by scripture, yet I never see any scripture from you that disproves total depravity, proves the ability of any one of the elect to be lost again, nor that man is able to choose Christ prior to being quickened by the Holy Spirit.

I am not attempting to change you. You will continue to believe what you wish and that is fine with me. I just want you to know the rest of Christ has no place in it for fearing being without Christ in eternity.

God Bless
Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

Then by your declaration, you are saying that God takes-in those who have lost their faith in Him. I find nothing in scripture where one who has lost faith, turned back from the plow, returned home to care for "parents", etc. or by whatever cause, can enter into the presence of God. Yet you insist that once one has faith one can never lose faith.

The scripture contain many warnings against falling away, losing faith, etc. WHY is that, if it is not possible to do so?

Do you think the scriptures are simply attempting to encourage us to keep the faith because "we might think we can lose faith"?

 

[tyndale1946]

My interpretation of scriptures is not that you can lose your faith but you will suffer if you do not adhere to it... Many in the scriptures shipwrecked their faith but they are still eternally saved... What you are implying Yelsew is what YOU DR DO NOT DO... SAVES YOU!... If that is the case why did Jesus Christ come?... To give you a chance at SALVATION... To give you a choice?... Sorry GRACE and choice or chance or decision don't match... NEVER the twain shall meet!... They are two separate points parallel into infinity and NEVER shall join... NEVER shall meet... My FAITH IS JESUS CHRIST... ALL OF IT!... Without it I have nothing... SOVEREIGN GRACE is ALL there is in the ETERNAL SALVATION domain... You can't buy it!... You can't purchase it because it is FREE!... There is nothing you or I or anyone else can do to have it... IT IS A GIFT!... Given to God's children through the sacrifice of Christ and is bought with his sinless blood.

Fellowship with Jesus Christ and the Father as you live in the world is dependent upon your walk!... YOU SUFFER HERE!... You will NEVER suffer hereafter because you belong to Jesus Christ and he payed for ALL your sins and ALL the sins of ALL his children... There are no sins held against you as Jesus Christ stood where you could not and payed the price you could not because your blood is polluted and you are from the loins of Adam!... Question... Will Jesus Christ SAVE ALL the Father gave him?... If not why not when the Bible explicitly states none will be eternally lost in HELL!... Brother Glen

 

[Eladar]

Question... Will Jesus Christ SAVE ALL the Father gave him?... If not why not when the Bible explicitly states none will be eternally lost in HELL!... Brother Glen

In order for the "SAVE ALL the Father gave him" statement to mean anything, one must first have the knowledge of who those people are.

That paticular statement is irrelevant to the question of eternal security.