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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 1689Dave, Aug 9, 2021.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You make reference to Rodger Nicole's article will go ahead and read the whole thing carefully
     
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I don't know that for a fact. Dort is based on universal atonement in points 4 & 5.
     
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    He says Calvin taught limited atonement. But I'm not convinced.
     
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    ok....there are several who have put it forth.
     
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  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    But we each need to read institutes to know for sure. I'm just saying evidence from Dort suggests he taught universal atonement.
     
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a Facebook registration for obvious reasons.
     
  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    It’s the leaders that Paul is addressing, not all Christians. The “loss” is dependent upon their followers being faithful in persecution. If the followers stumble, due to persecution, the leaders fail and lose their “reward”, though their salvation remains.

    peace to you
     
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Look up once saved always saved by RB Thieme
     
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  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    But it's the victims of the bad teacher who are the evidence. This would include you or me. This is why I don't trust teachers. I'm sharing some precious truth but you only trample it under foot.
     
  10. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    I honestly don’t think the Canons of Dort teach universal atonement , seeing they were refuting the Five Points of the Remonstrance, who did teach universal atonement.
     
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    They don't teach universal atonement. But their points 4-5 teach Arminian style salvation by works, but under divine coercion. As though Calvin taught universal atonement. = they are logically inconsistant.
     
  12. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    I’m going to have to read them in depth for myself. I honestly don’t think they teach that, but I could be wrong.
     
  13. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Are you referring to the fourth and fifth heads?
     
  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Points 4 & 5 of the 5 points of Calvinism.
     
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    They are not in line with Limited Atonement that saves intrinsically.
     
  16. Mikey

    Mikey Active Member

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    For clarification, are you saying that the Canon of Dordt diverged from what Calvin/institutes taught?
     
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Possibly by teaching Limited Atonement. Points 4-5 are not logically consistent. Limited atonement saves the elect. Not perseverance of the saints (works).
     
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It seems. I've never read Institutes. What I know is the 5 points are true to scripture up until points 4-5 which teaches salvation by works, albeit coerced works.
     
  19. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    You are missing the point, brother. Perseverance is the evidence that one is a saint, not a work one does to become one. Nonetheless, our Lord's word stands: "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.' And by implication, he who doesn't, won't. Read Acts 26:20.
     
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  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You are teaching works salvation. What I'm saying is that we are saved no matter what. Even our worst sins cannot prevent our salvation. Go ahead and gasp a few times, it's all right. Because God gives us a nature that hates sin and loves righteousness. So while you are trying to mend the flesh and trust in yourself, the born again are doing what they are designed to do. And that is to live holy lives.
     
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