OSAS made simple

[SovereignGrace]

John Calvin’s view of Limited Atonement – by Dr. Roger Nicole | Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind

Does Calvin believe in limited Atonement or not? Many say that Calvin did not believe it. Dr. Nicole proves them quite wrong, but not without careful efforts.

Thanks for that link, but it doesn’t give a direct quote from Calvin.

 

[1689Dave]

Thanks for that link, but it doesn’t give a direct quote from Calvin.

It says Calvin taught limited Atonement. I don't know if Roger Nicole is right. Points 4 & 5 are universal in nature.

 

[1689Dave]

Never said that.

You seem to suggest that.

 

[1689Dave]

Imputation does not make one righteous, but declares one righteous. If that were the case, when Christ was imputed our sins, then He would have literally became a sinner, and that is taught nowhere in the Bible.

You might grasp it eventually.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Here’s a link, but it seems to not be dry clear, at least to me…


https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/eq/1983-2_115.pdf

 

[SovereignGrace]

You might grasp it eventually.

I already have.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You seem to suggest that.

How so? Where did I say this or even suggest this?

 

[1689Dave]

How so? Where did I say this or even suggest this?

I took it that way.

 

[1689Dave]

I already have.

We would then agree. See ya later.........

 

[SovereignGrace]

We would then agree. See ya later.........

Where exactly in 4 and 5 do they teach universal atonement? Those are so vast it’s hard to pinpoint where you believe they do. Which articles and/or rejections say they teach universal atonement?

 

[1689Dave]

Here’s a link, but it seems to not be dry clear, at least to me…


https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/eq/1983-2_115.pdf

Thanks. What I'm going on so far is the level of logic in Dort's 5 points. And how the New Birth, not works correct it.

 

[1689Dave]

Where exactly in 4 and 5 do they teach universal atonement? Those are so vast it’s hard to pinpoint where you believe they do. Which articles and/or rejections say they teach universal atonement?

It's not the atonement that saves, but coerced perseverance in good works.

 

[kyredneck]

So, when’s the last time you sinned?

How many splinters do you have in your eyes?

None, but thanks for the insult.

Po lil' Willis, I didn't know he was so thin skinned, especially considering that he started it.

 

[canadyjd]

You are falsely accusing me of manipulating scripture. The main point is if you do not trust in Christ's imputed righteousness, rather than your own, you cannot have saving faith. You cannot have saving faith if you think you can be lost.

I don’t disagree with you in that. You just can’t get that from 1 Cor passage.

peace to you

 

[George Antonios]

You cannot have saving faith if you think you can be lost.

That's not true. I agree with OSAS (only for the church-age).
A man can at on point in his life come to trust nothing but the righteousness of Christ to save him, then get messed up with bad doctrine. That doesn't cancel his spiritual birth. The Bible tells us that some believers were teaching against OSAS, but they were still believers.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

The context is the church breaking into factions, following different leaders. Paul is warning the work of the leaders in teaching their followers will be tested by fire (persecution)

That's pretty inventive stuff there, only the immediate context is the fire of the judgment seat of Christ (as per the 2Corinthians 5 cross-reference) not persecution.

 

[Iconoclast]

I know the difference and you go with Dort who is correct on the first 3 points but in line with universal atonement and works on points 4 & 5. Let's not get cocky.

No actually you don't know the difference. All five points are intact .
Calvin did not teach Universal atonement he's often misunderstood and characterized that way by the enemies of Grace .
furthermore you don't understand the difference of one saved always saved which is a false teaching by those who oppose God's Grace.
perseverance of the Saints which is biblical and I suspect it's probably a misunderstanding of the law of God in reference to the Christian that adds to this.

 

[Iconoclast]

Then you have no business with ‘1689’ in your username, as you are posting anti-1689 teaching.

Yeah he uses 1689 meaning the confession of Faith most of his posts are anti confessional

 

[1689Dave]

No actually you don't know the difference. All five points are intact .
Calvin did not teach Universal atonement he's often misunderstood and characterized that way by the enemies of Grace .
furthermore you don't understand the difference of one saved always saved which is a false teaching by those who oppose God's Grace.
perseverance of the Saints which is biblical and I suspect it's probably a misunderstanding of the law of God in reference to the Christian that adds to this.

There is a huge difference. The Arminian style works salvation in points 4 & 5 only coerced by God. This squares with Universal atonement.

 

[1689Dave]

I don’t disagree with you in that. You just can’t get that from 1 Cor passage.

peace to you

It's there by extension. Who are the losers in this context if not the people it affects?

 

[Iconoclast]

Calvin taught universal atonement. That makes works the means of salvation. In this case, coerced works.

I say the New Birth with the new nature in itself produces holiness. Our works never measure up and cannot be relied on. But we trust in Christ's imputed righteousness instead. This is in line with Limited Atonement.

Calvin did not teach Universal atonement that is what the enemies of Grace teach. Look up a sermon on the Lord's supper and he clearly states some take the Lord's Supper who Christ did not die for them no look it up do some research instead of going with the enemies of Grace and what they have to say and take Calvin out of context of a half a sentence here a phrase there when he's talking about the universal offer of the Gospel