OT law

[freeatlast]

Under the law of the OT there was some very serious punishment for certain crimes against others. Do you believe that God was being too severe in the calling for the death penalty for such crimes as;
Murder
Adultery
homosexuality
striking a parent
rape

There are more but these are enough for now. So with these if you were alive under the law would you obey God or stand against Him on these issues?
Also should we have the same standards today or has God changed in how He feels about such things?

 

[Iconoclast]

IT is only the long suffering and mercy of God that he does not destroy uis all. If Jesus were not the Lamb slain from before the world as mediator of God's elect, we could not have life at all.
As sinners we do not view the sinfulness of sin....as our Thrice Holy God does.

God is perfect and does not change.

 

[freeatlast]

IT is only the long suffering and mercy of God that he does not destroy uis all. If Jesus were not the Lamb slain from before the world as mediator of God's elect, we could not have life at all.
As sinners we do not view the sinfulness of sin....as our Thrice Holy God does.

God is perfect and does not change.

That is very nice, but does that have to do with the questions?

 

[Ruiz]

Under the law of the OT there was some very serious punishment for certain crimes against others. Do you believe that God was being too severe in the calling for the death penalty for such crimes as;
Murder
Adultery
homosexuality
striking a parent
rape

There are more but these are enough for now. So with these if you were alive under the law would you obey God or stand against Him on these issues?
Also should we have the same standards today or has God changed in how He feels about such things?

God is just in what He does. To call any of the law unrighteous is the height of arrogance against the Creator of the world.

Now, we can discuss the nature of the judicial law today. However, God was never unjust in making any law.

 

[Iconoclast]

That is very nice, but does that have to do with the questions?

Well okay....let me try it this way.

you asked;

if you were alive under the law would you obey God or stand against Him on these issues?

Only ungodly reprobates would..."stand against God". I have a hard time believing any christian would even blaspheme the name of God with such an inquiry.

Then you asked if God has "changed' how he feels about things???

You are speaking as if God were like a man. As if he could have made a mistake,or failed to be perfect. There would be no God if that were even possible! read here;

http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc02.html

21These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

22Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.

23Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.

 

[freeatlast]

God is just in what He does. To call any of the law unrighteous is the height of arrogance against the Creator of the world.

Now, we can discuss the nature of the judicial law today. However, God was never unjust in making any law.

That's nice. So what is your answer to the questions?

 

[freeatlast]

Well okay....let me try it this way.

you asked;


Only ungodly reprobates would..."stand against God". I have a hard time believing any christian would even blaspheme the name of God with such an inquiry.

Then you asked if God has "changed' how he feels about things???

You are speaking as if God were like a man. As if he could have made a mistake,or failed to be perfect. There would be no God if that were even possible! read here;

http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc02.html

21These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

22Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.

23Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.

So I assume that you are having trouble with a clear answer.

 

[Ruiz]

That's nice. So what is your answer to the questions?

I answered your questions in a clear an unmistakable fashion. It is highly arrogant to assume God would command something that is evil. To say such is the height of arrogance and pride. I think I am clear.

As for the second question, I do not believe the judicial law is applicable to the judicial system today.

If you do not understand these answers, then I cannot help you any further.

 

[freeatlast]

I answered your questions in a clear an unmistakable fashion. It is highly arrogant to assume God would command something that is evil. To say such is the height of arrogance and pride. I think I am clear.

As for the second question, I do not believe the judicial law is applicable to the judicial system today.

If you do not understand these answers, then I cannot help you any further.

Thank you for not helping. :thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

So I assume that you are having trouble with a clear answer.

Not at all. A believer obeys the word of God and knows the righteous judgements of God are right.
As this is a christian board I was "assuming"we are talking about the same God revealed in scripture.You obviously have not taken time to view the confessional statements or the verses offered...but that is your loss.
If you expect to be taken seriously you should take heed to not trample over the good verses that answer your misguided question.

 

[freeatlast]

Not at all. A believer obeys the word of God and knows the righteous judgements of God are right.
As this is a christian board I was "assuming"we are talking about the same God revealed in scripture.You obviously have not taken time to view the confessional statements or the verses offered...but that is your loss.
If you expect to be taken seriously you should take heed to not trample over the good verses that answer your misguided question.

I think you might be a little confused. I have on more then one occassion listen to those who claim to be believers state that they would not impose the death penality for any reason and claim that no real Christian would. As for the OT many claim that the death panality was from Moses, not God.

 

[Iconoclast]

I think you might be a little confused. I have on more then one occassion listen to those who claim to be believers state that they would not impose the death penality for any reason and claim that no real Christian would. As for the OT many claim that the death panality was from Moses, not God.

The death penalty is scriptural.It came from God.
4But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

5And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

6Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

30Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die.

31Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.

32And ye shall take no satisfaction for him that is fled to the city of his refuge, that he should come again to dwell in the land, until the death of the priest.

33So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.

34Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.


King James Version (KJV)

 

[freeatlast]

The death penalty is scriptural.It came from God.
4But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

5And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

6Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

30Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die.

31Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.

32And ye shall take no satisfaction for him that is fled to the city of his refuge, that he should come again to dwell in the land, until the death of the priest.

33So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.

34Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.


King James Version (KJV)

I agree. That covers murder, but leaves out the rest. Now if this is God's standard then should we as Christians seek to inact like laws today?

 

[Iconoclast]

I agree. That covers murder, but leaves out the rest. Now if this is God's standard then should we as Christians seek to inact like laws today?

Yes.capital pumishment was never removed.We are not a theocracy as Israel was however.The ceremonial laws were fulfilled in Christ.
The nt church obeys the law of Christ.

http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Law/law_01.htm

 

[Amy.G]

So I assume that you are having trouble with a clear answer.

The clear answer is that the wages of sin is death. Under OT Law, death came immediately. Under the New Covenant, we live under the law of grace, but eternal death is still the price to be paid for sin. But glory to God that Jesus paid that price and all believers are justified and will not see death for our sin.

God is not and never has been unjust. His Law was and is perfect.

 

[freeatlast]

Yes.capital pumishment was never removed.We are not a theocracy as Israel was however.The ceremonial laws were fulfilled in Christ.
The nt church obeys the law of Christ.

http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Law/law_01.htm

I am not speaking of any ceremonial laws. I am speaking of proper governmental laws. Should we today set up the same type of laws that God calls for?

 

[freeatlast]

The clear answer is that the wages of sin is death. Under OT Law, death came immediately. Under the New Covenant, we live under the law of grace, but eternal death is still the price to be paid for sin. But glory to God that Jesus paid that price and all believers are justified and will not see death for our sin.

God is not and never has been unjust. His Law was and is perfect.

The OT was under grace also. No one ever got saved by keeping the law. This is not about salvation at all. This is a question asking if God gives us information on how to deal with certain crimes should we seek to set up our laws today in the same manner?

 

[Amy.G]

The OT was under grace also. No one ever got saved by keeping the law. This is not about salvation at all. This is a question asking if God gives us information on how to deal with certain crimes should we seek to set up our laws today in the same manner?

I wasn't talking about salvation.

We are not under the Law for 2 reasons.

1. We are not Jews.

2. The Law was fulfilled in Christ.


We are under the laws of our nation. America was founded on Christian principles, but we have never been a theocratic nation such as Israel, which was chosen by God to be the light of the world in the OT. We are to obey our laws just as Paul taught.

 

[freeatlast]

I wasn't talking about salvation.

We are not under the Law for 2 reasons.

1. We are not Jews.

2. The Law was fulfilled in Christ.
We are under the laws of our nation. America was founded on Christian principles, but we have never been a theocratic nation such as Israel, which was chosen by God to be the light of the world in the OT. We are to obey our laws just as Paul taught.

Oh that is interesting! Ok so homosexuality is not sin, right? Or how about murder? or how about incest? We are not under the law, right? By the way the new testament teaches the death penalty.
Romans 13:12
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
The sword is not to spank you with or simply stick you to wake someone up. The sword is an instrument of death. So should we support the death penality since God calls for it before the law, under the law and under grace?

 

[Amy.G]

Oh that is interesting! Ok so homosexuality is not sin, right? Or how about murder? or how about incest? We are not under the law, right? By the way the new testament teaches the death penalty.
Romans 13:12
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
The sword is not to spank you with or simply stick you to wake someone up. The sword is an instrument of death. So should we support the death penality since God calls for it before the law, under the law and under grace?

What??? When did I say murder, incest and homos#xulality were not sins???

I also never said the death penalty was wrong. I said we are to obey the laws of our nation. That is what Paul said.
The death penalty came before the Law, so it is still in effect in my opinion, but if the laws of our nation forbid it, then we must accept that.